MLM Bot Watch 72 - We are watching you bots and we have the screenshots …

[YouOKHun]

Eagerly awaiting the start of term at Scamversity - eek!

Bit shocked to discover someone I did my post-grad with is a long-time follower of Fierce. She has commented "So true, brilliant words" on the 'Trolls' live.
Odd, as she is extremely savvy and clear headed and has more than one genuine (and rewarding) J.O.B. and no hint of MLM anywhere- I find it hard to understand how she'd have had anything to do with Fierce...

It is amazing isn’t it @Twentytwentyhindsight when people like your fellow post-grad student who are clearly not in MLM and would appear resourceful enough not to resort to it seem to fall for the idea that activities like C&F’s are valid and critics are trolls. How can anyone take these two seriously, especially someone who isn’t apparently so easy to convince?

I’m afraid that on the rare occasion I’ve come across someone who is taken in by this kind of thing despite their proper career and apparent intelligence, I just assume that I have overrated them and they can’t be very smart, or they have an exploitative streak. Either way I’d back right away from their non-MLM commercial activities. I don’t know anyone who wouldn’t see MLM or it’s parasite businesses (such as coaching) as a red flag, even those I know who aren’t particularly bothered by MLM. It’s a credibility bypass.

One of the speakers appears to be non-MLM and is a coach in the education sector (language a bit on the edge of bollocks but not complete Castle style rubbish). She’s clearly had coaching from Fierce and I wonder if she has somehow fallen for the “trusted learning establishment” line. Could she really be that stupid? Perhaps she has a secret Scholastic or Usbourne bizniz?

This person has a fairly high-level corporate job for an international company and also chairs a professional association for the profession we studied (and which she also practices part time).
For the life of me, I can't see from what angle she'd have fallen into Fierce's orbit...

That is odd. Anyone with half a brain, or with any critical thinking skills at all would see straight through Castle and Fierce’s ridiculous scamfest
One glance at the horrorshow lineup of speakers would have me running for the hills.

I couldn’t bear to the watch the whole live but I assume viewers weren’t told about threads on Mumsnet
critics are all lone bitter haters who are jealous failures etc etc?

Do you think someone can be intelligent and have a good career under their belt but still be susceptible to a certain type of coaching? Not the sort of professional coaching done on the back of general organisational knowledge or professional background, mentoring people in a senior role to reach their own conclusions/make plans etc etc, but more the sort of word salad ego boosting “coaching” that affirms someone and makes them feel good about themselves (and therefore equally positive about the ‘coach’).

Perhaps if you meet Fierce outside the anti-MLM context and are not particularly on guard for the usual BS then she is very good at chatting people up and finding their weak spot and bombarding them with “positivity”. Not so much coaching ability as psychopathy.

There are intelligent and educated people who get sucked into cults. I mentioned a very interesting podcast a few threads ago called ‘The Influence Continuum’ which is hosted by an academic who is an ex Moonie.

I must listen to that @Spongebobette. The whole subject of cults is fascinating (and applicable).

you’re also right that no mention was made by Fierce about the content of the criticism trolling and it was brushed over as “ no need to go into the content as it’s just stuff said by unhappy people”, I don’t believe she ever said it was untrue, she just focussed her followers on feeling pity for the envious and unhappy trolls. In her position I wouldn’t want to get too specific either or try and dispute the sort of things said as it just gives her followers something to Google if they have even the smallest doubts. I watched it this morning so I can’t remember if she utilised the other criticism deflection technique which is to counter the “trolls” comments by wheeling out her “hard luck story” to garner sympathy and distract the gullible.

I find it hard to believe even the most ardent Fierce fan on receiving links to various reviews etc isn’t just a little bit curious even if every part of them wants and needs to dismiss the uncomfortable information as rubbish. Surely link after link of first hand negative experiences does get read and on some level sows a seed of doubt? I hope so.

i was listening to another podcast, Politics Girl I think, and the guest made a fascinating point
it was about Trump but fits any cult
People who bought into the whole Trump thing can’t be persuaded that he’s a wrong’un and that they were duped because it would mean that they were stupid and it’s too hard to accept so they have to stay loyal and ignore the reality.

@YouOKHun @Spongebobette if you’ve an interest in cults I’d highly recommend the podcast ‘zealot’. Informative and very funny.

Thank you — always on the lookout for a god podcast!

Good
d’oh

I’d listen to a The Godcast @Spongebobette! 😉 The Influence Continuum podcast is fascinating. I’ll add Zealot to my list too.

I’ve been listening to the Missing Crypto Queen podcast this week - it’s excellent. People who dared to speak out against One Coin, especially those who have lost a lot of money, were described by those just under the pointy end of the familiarly-shaped object as jealous haters. They even persuaded the FCA to take down a warning on their website about their concerns surrounding One Coin. The episodes on the workings of MLM are curiously interesting.

As for supposedly intelligent folk who are oblivious to the fact that Fierce is up to no good, it could be that they’re just not aware of the workings of MLM and the dark side of their fierce friend and her alleged business activities.

Just had a couple of random adverts for Amazon.There is a planner with a gratitude and wellness journal 📓. Where have I seen this before?

Ha ha - Castle strikes again!

Showing why people should join her Uni via 7 lives in 7 days.

Castle had something come up, so will be 12 hours late.

It’s not like anyone is paying you for your time Castle…

such absolute arrogance, you will all wait for me.

Just browsing the T&C on the Freshers Week Scamsaversity fb ad. I remember asking on a recent live about cancellation meaning not having to make any further payments and C & F both confirming this (before blocking me).

Unfortunately the T&Cs say different and Section 9 goes into great detail, here is one sub section... "9.2 In the event you wish to terminate your enrolment in the Service, this must be given in writing. You agree and acknowledge you are still obligated to pay any outstanding sums of the agreed purchase price as outlined in the Order and these Terms." Musing about where there is an anti-Scamsaversity fb page up and running yet made up of disgruntled 'students' because I would imagine any negative comment will be immediately deleted and students blocked.

Popped in for a few mins to the live and it’s absolute SHITE

Had a look at Fierce's fb page where she did a live yesterday about 'trolls' who are targeting them during the Scamseversity freshers week because they are providing free business advice, or something . Doesn't make sense, does it? I'd love to know who the trolls are and what they are saying. Anyone here know anything?

Good article

seekingalpha.com/article/4535797-multilevel-marketing-how-everyone-doing

What are these gullible women hoping for when they sign up? That Castle and Fierce will show them the way to untold riches? It's tragic it really is. I see Nurse has signed up, I don't mean to be horrible but I don't think she'll ever make a good business woman, too gullible, wants to make a fast buck without having to do much work won't listen to advice and doesn't accept criticism....recipe for disaster.

It’s all pretend play

Checking in after a while off grid. Not at all surprised Nurse has signed up. Is she still doing forever or has she stopped?

She did the usual ‘love the products but so busy with x that I’m stepping away from the business’

ie not ‘I have tried my best for years and have lost a lot of money and have never qualified for anything
I have completely failed and the business model makes it impossible to succeed’

I’ve been listening to the Missing Crypto Queen podcast this week - it’s excellent.

Excellent podcast @BSintolerant and really interesting just how favourable to the scammers the MLM model was, as that was really what increased the numbers wasn’t it?

The most vocal victim turned campaigner in that podcast is an interesting woman. She is a friend of Sleaze because I believe he and she were vocal about being ripped off by OC. I see her very occasionally comment on Sleaze’s posts and often defend him as a solid bloke and I wonder how that association sits with her as a voice against One Coin when her mate has gone on to scam others in various crypto scams. It makes me wonder if she is one of these people who can only see the scam that harmed her, and isn’t too worried about it happening to others in other identical (though smaller scale) scams?

…really interesting just how favourable to the scammers the MLM model was, as that was really what increased the numbers wasn’t it?

It certainly was @YouOKHun - there’s no way One Coin would have grown as quickly and widespread as it did without the MLM model. It struck me how serial MLMers at the top of the tree were lured away from other MLM companies because they had such large downlines who could be exploited. The MLM couple they interviewed had bounced around several MLMs taking their huge downlines with them, who were obviously keen to go as this opportunity promised to be even more amaaaaaaayyyyyyzzzzzing than the last. It’s depressing isn’t it.

I had no idea the victim turned campaigner is a friend to Sleaze. Perhaps she has a similar blind spot to that of Fierce’s friend mentioned above.