anyone know how I should untangle this?

[spirk]

I have posted about this situation before on other boards. Those posts were mainly about the emotional side of this situation, which is very hard. However, I really need some practical advice from people who know what they're talking about.

In a nutshell

My whole family is a disaster and every single person has fallen out with every other person. It's wall to wall drama and I am NC with all of them. I kept in contact with my DPs the longest until things just got too extreme to cope with. The NC with my Ps has affected me very badly. When I say extreme, I mean extreme, we're not talking about a tiff here.

Before things got that bad my Ps created 3 accounts and put some money into them for me as a gift. They are quite well off. These accounts were two ISAs which are only accessible online (no brick and mortar location to go into) and one small pension.

I have the account numbers. I have a passport. I don't have anything else. No login, not the phone used to verify the login (mine but at their house). No passwords or anything else.

I left this situation as it was hoping that we would reconcile. I also didn't want to seem grabby over money that after all is not actually mine. Again, in a nutshell, that didn't happen.

Having 3 accounts in my name and no idea what's going on with them has caused me problems paying my tax (unearned income, no idea how much) and now the place I bank with are (literally) reading me the fraud act and basically questioning various aspects of the situation. I also can't properly organise a pension for myself because I technically have one (or it's been closed), all very messy.

I need to access these accounts. From there I would have the choice to offer my P's their money back. However the situation can't go on the way it is.

I've become very unwell with the stress of the situation which Ps show no interest in changing, so I will have to be the one to change something.

I really need some practical advice on how to go about the first steps of this.

Obviously not having a physical bank to go into makes things harder.

I'm going to ring the two banks on Monday. I'm actually not too fussed about the pension account, I think I can sort that out. But, what are they going to want to know?

What explanation should I give for this? I really don't want to discuss with a stranger all the ins and outs of this miserable situation and just keep it unemotional. I had to explain a lot of it to a lady from my regular bank and answering these point blank questions about very sad things was so hard. If they have to ask, then obviously they have to ask but I got the impression that she was she was just curious about some parts of what had happened rather than a need to know basis.

My partner said to me that my Ps could technically have emptied and closed these accounts by themselves.

That's true and other than the stress this whole thing has put me through that would be fine. It's their money. However I got an email from one of the banks regarding tax, so I know that one is still in my name.

He agrees that I need to conclude the situation and since my Ps are very extreme people the best thing to do would be to get control of the accounts still in my name and offer it back on my terms rather than attempt to discuss it which doesn't work.

Importantly, I don't have proof that this money WAS a gift, because of the falling out. Additionally, if I give it back to them they would have to provide proof of that money being a gift to me in order for me to gift it back to them again.

It's a big mess and if anyone can suggest how I start to untangle it I would really appreciate that.

Can you confirm what you meant by "No login, not the phone used to verify the login (mine but at their house)"? Was the phone used for setting up this account not yours?

If the accounts are in your name then the presumption is that it's your money. Although you mention that your bank is concerned about fraud. Was there an agreement that the ISAs were opened in your name because your parents had already used up their allowances, but that the money remained theirs?

In any event, for you income generated in ISAs and pension investments is not taxable, and does not need to be declared, so the accounts will not affect your tax situation. And you can have more than one pension.

I would just tell the banks that you have lost all the passwords and paperwork, but that you're happy to produce whatever documents they require to establish your identity as the account holder - would they please let you know. They will have a protocol for giving access to a lost account. They might well ask questions, but there's no other way to go about it.

Hi @Fere the phone was mine, it's an older style of phone. I have a more modern one that I use day to day. My Ps wanted me to keep the phone at their house, which I agreed to. Something then happened and I felt too vulnerable going to their house again. As I said to my DP, even if I went there, there's no guarantee it would resolve anything.

With the login let's say there was an online bank called spirkbank and you opened an account. You would set it up via email (can access that) and then you would get a password and username. I don't know what those were. You then get an account number and transfer funds into the savings account.

Ps sent me the funds to my regular account and I then transferred it to the online one which is what they wanted me to do. There was some paperwork that got printed out, all still at their house.

Actually my regular bank were already unhappy about that as without proof of the gift it looks like large amounts of money went in and out of my account very quickly with no proof of where it came from. I work but am on a modest wage.

I have looked through my regular current account and can see some of the payments but it says payment to x bank rather than a specific account number.

This is good advice. I would be inclined to ask them what they need for ID, passport, proof of address, bank statement? Keep a copy of all your correspondence with them, if it's a phone call, record date and time and who you speak to (full name). If you are getting fobbed off insist on waiting on the phone until you can speak to their manager. If still no luck call citizens advice bureau, good luck.

Can you not go to the log in page and click on a forgotten user name and forgotten passord option.

On you standing orders or payments page on your online banking it should tell you the sort code and account number you sent the money to

I also agree with Laura. There isn't a need to mention parents or phones to the bank.

You haven't got any paperwork so what are the next steps.

If it comes to it, and you have to reveal some more information, you don't need to tell them you have fallen out with your parents. Really, that has absolutely nothing to do with the situation of accessing the accounts that are in your name.

If you go into online banking for your regular account and look at payees, can you see the details of the account you transferred to?

I agree with other posters, I would tell the bank you no longer have the phone that was used to verify the account and you've lost the account details. You will not be the first person who has said this to them and they will have a way of dealing with it.

I think it's definitely worth trying the 'forgotten my username/password' option on the login page of the bank where the ISA is.

Do as suggested above, however the bank may well ask you for more information. They are legally obligated to ensure that the money isn't tge illegal proceeds of crime being laundered.

So, do as above, simply ask what they need to get you access to the account for which you've lost paperwork and passwords. But if they start asking detailed questions don't get shirty, answer simply ans truthfully- it's nothing more than them doing their job.

I'm not an expert by any means, but I find for things like this a letter sent by registered post is more effective than a phone call. You can include a photocopy of your passport and details of the original transfer as well as your new contract details.

I think I've read your previous posts op.

I'm sure it's upsetting on a personal level but honestly, from an access point of view you're really making this unnecessarily difficult.

Pick the phone up. Call ISA company 1 and give them your name and account number. Tell them you've lost the paperwork to the account and have changed email/phone/whatever but need to regain access to the account. If they question further say your parents helped you set the account up so may have xyz but you're no longer in touch.

The rest is on them. They will TELL YOU what to do. Then do it. That's it.

What about the phone number from that old phone, do you still own it?

Just to correct my own error I don't have the account numbers, just the record of transferring the money. It says the bank name.

@LauraNicolaides That makes sense, thank you. I'll try and keep it by the book and professional.

I get that people are going to have to ask questions but the lady in my regular bank went a bit too far really. She wasn't to know, I suppose she thought there was just some normal explanation. I ended up telling her more than I wanted to (thought in the moment that I had to and it would look odd to refuse).

Thank you @Luckydip1 I feel a bit more confident now that I can take the lead on the conversation with them.

@ChanceNorman Thank you, I'll do that. I'm sure I'm making it harder due to the circumstances. If it was just my own account it would be different. I think it's a good start to phone them and ask what they need and go from there. I do appreciate all the help people have given me on here. It's been quite a long journey to get this far.

@Palavah Thanks, I wouldn't be shirty and rude or anything. I'm sure the person I speak to could do without hearing all of the details anyway.

I do understand that they have to check, as I say, I can't really prove it is above board. Not without cooperation which is not forthcoming, even to send it back again. I think it may come down to me writing a letter to my Ps and saying if we can't work it out properly we'll have to all be subject to the process the banks have in place.

@Fere It was just a simple pay as you go phone. I no longer know what the number is. This situation developed over a few years so I've had more than one phone since for day to day use.

@LauraNicolaides Sorry, I missed your other question. No the agreement was that this was a gift to me and a letter was written to confirm that. That letter is at their house.

Later on my DF said to use the money for something and my DM said I could have it when she was dead and that if I wanted it sooner I was wishing her dead. She also said they wanted it all back but when I said I would speak to my DF and arrange that she begged me not to tell him, because she would get in trouble for lying. So...rather than just a disagreement, it's all over the place.

This is why I'm nervous about sorting it all out with the banks. There's not really a straight answer anywhere. Still, I just need to follow the legal procedures now. I guess they're there for this kind of eventuality, when people can't or won't sort it themselves.

I agree that the bank doesn't need to more than the absolute minimum. The ISA provider will sort this out with you. I hope you can sort it out soon, anyone would feel stressed in this scenario.

Yes, keep it to the minimum.

The banks don't need to know any of that stuff. People have new phone numbers, it's not that unusual.

The account is in your name and you are you.

If it actually gets to the point of your parents, you can always say something like

'unfortunately my parents are no longer capable of giving me that information'

which is true.

However, I'd avoid talking about them at all if you can.

On your statement it will just give the name of where the payment was going. You must have the details of the payment in your payments and transfers section as you would have had to input the sort code and account number in that section (unless you then deleted the payment details).

you say you can sort the pension account out yourself. Is this in a proper registered pension fund? Please don’t be tempted to take this money out - you could end up with a massive tax bill. You can’t just give it back you your parents.

Try the Pension Tracing Service - it's free.
As PP said don't just withdraw the money without advice.
If you don't have account numbers that's trickier. I didn't mean to put you off trying though definitely worth it.

@Palavah I'll look at that service, thank you. It's a bit of a tricky situation all round but it needs some resolution now.

@messybutfun Sorry if I wasn't clear I wouldn't withdraw the pension. I'm least worried about that one because it's quite small, it would be more hassle than it's worth to take it back and I'm guessing there is a more straightforward process to resolving that one as it's clearer that it was a gift. With the other 2 I technically paid large sums from my current account into these.

@Fere thank you.

@ScootsMcHoy That's a good phrase thanks. I'll certainly reread this thread tomorrow before I call.