Not very Christmassy, sorry but has anyone else been to a tribunal?

[FlllightAttendant]

This is really long and boring, and highly unfestive, so please ignore unless you are a masochist, I hate to ask this at such a time.

But yesterday I finally had all the documentation through about my appeal to the benefits agency. It has made me feel really rotten.
Basically in October I had a medical interview thing to assess whether I was still depressed, and thus qualified for benefit on those grounds (Income support).

I was feeling terrible with PND on top of my usual depression, (such a cheerful soul, I really am!) and had a very short exam, it was only about 15 mins not the usual 45. The Dr. didn't ask me many questions. I had tried to look tidy and was holding Ds2 throughout, and tried to be lighthearted and friendly, in retrospect not a good idea.

It came back as a 'does not qualify' decision, based it would appear largely on the fact that I was tidy and seemed 'relaxed' (she had no idea that I had been in a spin about it for weeks, I guess I hid it well) but troublingly she had noted down answers which I had not given, eg. 'usually managed to tidy up' - I would never say that, it is a tip here, friends avoid coming round because of it - and 'does not suffer because of poor sleeping' which is just ridiculous. I wasn't even asked most of the questions, she had given the same (wrong) answrs to loads of them.
I asked them to reconsider, went to see my GP who knows my state of mind, she wrote, my HV wrote, I had scored 24 on the Edinburgh test, 19 on PHQ-9, both indicate severe depression. I was even referred to the mental health team for an assessment which I have now had. I am on the waiting list for therapy and am seeing an OT in the interim. She also rang the BA and gave her opinion, which they told her thy would make a note of.
They sent my long letter back to me saying they could not change the decision, I would have to appeal. I wrote another very long letter, which took a great deal of effort, typed it and printed it out describing my actual answers as they would have been had I been asked the questions. I sent it in with the correct appeals form, it was all I could do, it was very detailed.
I rang the BA last week and asked the status of the thing, they said it had gone back to the decision maker and i wouldn't have to go to appeal - I was so relieved and felt a little bit better till yesterday.
Then this pile of paperwork arrived, saying that I would have to appeal, and containing the decision maker's argument, which said basically that I had 'contradicted' the statements I had made in the exam (I didn't make them in the first place) and that I was evidently of sound mind, able to argue my case cogently, and could use a computer to type. Which reminds me of Catch 22 to be honest.
I am afraid and hurt and really, really upset by this seeming total lack of justice. Nobody believes me, they don't even take the word of my own doctor, and if I argue my case they say it is evidence that I am fine.
I now have to get through Christmas with this playing on my mind. I have to decide whether to have a tribunal where I am there, and probably again get judged on my appearance - and if I turned up looking scruffy they would probably say it 'contradicted' my original appearance, or something - or a 'paper' hearing, which means I won't be there, and cannot put my point across any further than I already have.
I am praying that my OT will be able to attend with me, or instead of me, but the date for the tribunal is not given, and she is very busy, and I don't even know if she would represent me. They totally ignored her phone call, it is not even mentioned.
I am freaking out a bit here, last thing I can face is a hearing about this, I feel like I've been pulled apart and assessed too maky times lately, it is horrible and intrusive. I am temptd to tick the 'I do not wish to continue with the appeal' box and have done with it, but that would just be dishonest - believe me, were I able to work I would be delighted to tick that bloody box.
I'm sorry this is so long.
I needed to offload somewhere, I am taking it out on Ds1 who senses I am upset and is playing up.

Not the same FA but I've been to a DWP tribunal for dd's DLA.

This site has some really useful stuff for DLA and I've found some on Incapacity and the Capability Assessment. Have a trawl around it there might be some other relevant info. The downloadable Incapacity for Work Guide has some stuff on appeals.

I found my appeal quite stressful as I went on my own, but the panel were very nice - and they are independent of the Benefits Agency. I can understand that just getting to grips with the appeal might me be construed as you being well enough and that must be a difficult point to get across.

If you have the strength appeal in person becasue you are more likely to be successful that way.

yes I haave been to a tribunal after I was turned down for DLA, My tribunal hearing was heard in July and I successfully managed to get DLA for my condition...I did have the help of a friend who works for the CAB though, so first of aall I would urge you to get in touch with The welfare rights people in your area who can give you free help and advice on preparing for a tribunal..the key is to pull apart everything they have claimed in their decision against you, you need evidence to the contrary, can you get any further supporting evidence from Gp etc??(by the way, the benifits agency will have sent a form to your gp to get further evidence, this merely consisys of a tick box form which the gp ticks, its not the saame as getting a written statement)

Oh MrsGrinch, I am so grateful to you for replying, and with all those great links Off to do some festive reading!

That is so kind. Can I ask, were you successful with your DD?

Oh thankyou spacey as well, x posted, just reading your post...

p.s, always turn up for your hearing, dont have a paper hearing as nine times out of ten, they are found against you and not in your favour..if you need any further advice..dont hesitate to email me.
[email protected]

apologies for my typos..my keyboard is dying!

That sounds awful .... as you say, a real Catch 22 situation, damned if you do, damned if you don't.

I really don't know what to suggest for the best as it would seem you've already done all the sensible things. As you say, it took you a great deal of (mental & physical ?) effort to write to them in detail (I know official stuff of any sort used to really take it out of me when I had depression .... or anything really where you had to concentrate) but it's so unfair - and bloody Victorian - to suggest that being articulate and/or intelligent means you can't possibly be suffering. "Sound mind" is a description which, to me, conjures up someone who's not about to do something completely doo-lally, or someone who's not psychotic, suffering delusions etc, or a danger to others. Having a "Sound mind" however, does NOT mean you can't also be suffering from depression ! I think whoever wrote that has no understanding whatsoever of mental health issues and obviously thinks that depressed people should be in an institution somewhere in a padded cell.

I wondered whether "MIND" might be able to offer you some advice ? If you don't already know they campaign for better understanding of, and justice for, those with mental health issues. Their number is 08457660163 and their Christmas opening hours are:

Monday 24th December: 9.00am to 4.00pm
Tuesday 25th and Wednesday 26th: CLOSED
Thursday 27th and Friday 28th: 9.00am to 5.00pm
Saturday 29th: CLOSED
Sunday 30th: CLOSED
Monday 31st: 9.00am to 4.00pm
Tuesday 1st January: CLOSED
Wednesday 2nd: Open as usual 9.15am to 5.15pm

I'm sure they would be able to point you in the right direction .......... the fact you are apparently seen to be "fighting" for yourself should NOT count against you. However hard that is to motivate yourself to do that, the fact remains that if you don't fight, you don't get benefits and then what ? Few people would "give up" because it's a question of survival, the idiots.

In theory, a tribunal is supposed to be conducted by a neutral body (?) I think the most pertinent argument in your case is that you have been misrepresented in the original report, which is outrageous. You have to wonder - given the subsequent comments you've received - how many other people in a similar position have also been deliberately misrepresented in the hope they'll go away and shut up about it, and that's another one crossed off "the list".

Really? Oh blimey. I hadn't realised it was such a massive proportion. That is just shocking, what about the people who can't put together a case, I am so tempted not to bother it is so difficult, and here I am with 3 a levels, so that says something.

I tried to get welfare rights involved but there was nobody who deals with this sort of thing, apparently? Weird. Maybe I rang the wrong people.
I think I will have to ask my OT and GP both to write again, The GP letter she sent already was very short, she just said 'my patient tells me she is depressed, I have referred her for further support'. I don't know what else she could say.
The OT will probably have more of an idea though.

Basically they are saying that although the tests the GP did and the PND one as well were high scores, they are about symptoms while the assessment I failed was about function. Yes, so I have good mental function, sometimes, in some ways - I thought I was there to tell them I was depressed though.? Baffling. How on earth can I refute that? I have left the cooker on a few times and nearly burnt the hosue down, I cannot always get my child to school as I am not dressed...funnily enough these questions were part of the original assessment, but they were not even asked, and if they had been, I could have answered them appropriately.
Of course then it all gets into the territory of 'this woman cannot care for her children' doesn't it.
Very fine line. I have no evidence of this type of thing, maybe it is time to actually burn the house down, you know, just slightly, enough for them to notice.

Thankyou for the address, Spacecadet. I will email you x

Sorry x posted again! That was a reply to Spacey

not everything has to be about christmas

Catsmother, that is a really helpful answer too, you lot are brill
I might make it through Christmas at this rate!
Thankyou for the Mind info. it is the kind of thing I am just too tired to find, or even know about, no I didn't realise they campaigned about this kind of thing. I will ring them tomorrow. [feeling hopeful again]

Yes, I imagine it is fairly orchestrated as the government seems to want to make it all harder for people who are too ill to work. I think 'another one off the list' sums it up really. They are not trained in mental health, as far as I know. My OT certainly is, which I may be correct in surmising, is why her phone call was blatantly ignored.

Pukka, I never intended this thread as 'light relief from the festive throng' but you know, if you want it to be that, help yourself

Glad to be of service!!!

fa, i havent even read any of the messages. i'm just commenting on the thread titlle.
just because it is dec 23rd doesnt mean other stuff doesnt happen in rl.

Here's the weblink for Mind:

www.mind.org.uk/Mind

I only looked at it quickly but it seems quite comprehensive. They have a load of booklets about different stuff including Managing on Benefits, which includes a bit about Challenging An Unfavourable Decision.

Sorry I was trying to be funny, not sarky. Hope you understand. Bad at jokes, sorry.

Yes we won I had trouble finding someone to help me - the woman at the CAB told me they weren't 'franchised' which I took to mean funded to help. Basically because I didn't tick the right boxes: working, have a decent education and a mortgage It didn't seem to occur to them that dd was the actual beneficiary of the help.

They definitely turn you down to test you I think - to see how committed you are to claiming this benefit. There are a lot of legalities to be adhered to in the appeals process and it appears to me that your initial assessment was less than satisfactory.

For DLA it's always suggested that you keep a diary - anecdotal evidence of how you are affected on a day to day basis. Maybe this is worthwhile for you too.

Thanks again Catsmother, will have a good look

I hadn't thought of a diary. I have plenty of noteebooks with messy scribbling, but it is pretty random. I might try harder in the next few weeks, in case it helps. Though they keep saying it is only about my state of mind at the time I was examined, not since.

just for the record..haave you actually submitted your appeal in writing now?? idf so then Im guessing the paperwork that came through was your appeal bundle,you really need some help to look through the paperwork and prepare for your appeal, beacuse I know from my own experience of depression that it can be hard to think straight. unfortunately they will look for anything which acts as a get out clause for them to pay benefit, most genuine cases are usually turned down the first time. what you need to get across is how this condition affects YOU on a day to day basis, so its no use saying, you cant tidy up, because they dont care, that doesnt apply, or in saying, you struggle to look after the dc, because again, they are not interested, you need to say for example, how it affects you cooking a meal for yourself, or how it affects your personal care..ie do you not dress ot wash on your worst days, do you need someone to cook meals for you? how are you at going out, can you visit the shops or do you suffer from anaxiety?..Do you see where Im coming from? I will look out for you email

I had to go to an tribunal over a back problem.

I didn't realise you can take someone in with you to help you, but you are permitted to do this. Some people there had solicitors with them. However I won the appeal, and I have to say the tribunal were very nice and clued up. They decided almost immediately in my favour.

I have challenged 4 decisions by the Benefits agency (or dhss) as was, and won 3. It is worth fighting although I am sure you feel like crap. I don't know what they make their decisions based on, but the fact that I won 3 times out of 4 says something about how crap they are.

Good luck HTH

Message withdrawn

Hi Space, will email now instead of replying on here...if ds1 lets me that is

Good to know, Fizzbuzz. Cod, I will hope she sees this when she has a moment. I am really grateful to everyone for replying though it is Christmas and all that.

You need to say in your appeal, that as the interview only took 15 mins instead of the recommended 45, you cannot believe the doctor had enough knowledge of you or your condition.

Also try not to take dc if you can....