Looking for a probate solicitor who understands business estates as opposed to personal estates?

[Drivingslowtosavefuel]

FIL died leaving a big estate in quite a mess. Found plenty of solicitors who can advise on probate but none who know how to deal with a business (business is still operating, business accounts are running, as opposed to personal accounts). I am not sure why this is proving so difficult to find (we are in the south east) as people with businesses die all the time, surely?! We are out of our depth and want some really reliable advice. So far have met with 2 solicitors who either charged us for an hour to tell us they couldn’t help or were intimidated by the size of the estate.
Another issue is most of them want to do everything and take a massive cut of the estate. We would obviously prefer to pay by the hour, get the advice, and do the majority of the work ourselves.
Has anyone been in a similar situation and managed to find someone? Willing to travel (within reason) if we can find the right solicitor to help. Any tips for how we identify someone who fits the bill? Actual recommendations very welcome too of course!
Thank you

Co op Legal Services say they do this

www.co-oplegalservices.co.uk/media-centre/articles-sept-dec-2018/how-probate-works-when-the-deceased-owned-a-business/

I have done non business probate with them and there were options in terms of fees and which bits you could do yourself

Also, does the business have an accountant? We know one family who inherited a business and they said the accountant was far more helpful than the solicitor.

I was going to say you need a large firm of accountants. They will have business/tax and other departments that should be able to guide you. You can explain what you want them to do and what work the family wants to provide. Get this in writing along with likely fees for their work.

Thanks @DaisyNGO Co-op is worth a look - they made our wills for us and seemed very thorough.

The business doesn’t have a full time accountant but just used the services of an accountant as and when needed.

Thanks @Mosaic123 - that’s really interesting that you say we need accountants rather than solicitors - will also explore that Avenue. It certainly would explain why the solicitors we have asked seem unable or unwilling to help!

@Drivingslowtosavefuel

Thanks *@DaisyNGO* Co-op is worth a look - they made our wills for us and seemed very thorough.

The business doesn’t have a full time accountant but just used the services of an accountant as and when needed.

Definitely ask that accountant for advice, they will know a lot of stuff about the forms etc to fill in and likely charge a lot less than a solicitor.

Hope you get it sorted, I know that feeling of legal stress in already hard times

Thanks @DaisyNGO !

Also you don’t need to use local solicitors / accountants. Regional firms outside SE will almost certainly have better rates.

That's true about the rates, @DaftVader42
One issue though is there is a lot of physical paperwork so we figured it might be hard to do it all remotely/over zoom, hence the preference for someone in the south east that we could actually see in person

The business will have used an accountant, the accountant will need to supply information and figures to the solicitor. It will help if they already have an established relationship with a firm of probate solicitors , ask the accountant if there is a firm he has Worked with for probate?

Yes accountants are now able to do probate work , there is additional C.P.d, and registrations and courses but legally they are now able to deal with probate , this has not always been the case.

That is bonkers. Just make sure you are dealing with a large enough firm that has a proper corporate/commercial department as well as a good private client department. None of this is difficult at all.

Thanks @Alwayscheerful - good to know there are additional probate qualifications for accountants so we know they are qualified

Thanks @SeasonFinale - yes so think you are right they need to be a firm of a certain size (but not so large that you end up dealing with a call centre and a different person each time). Am amazed that no one wants to touch it - either because of the size of it or how complicated it is, or some other reason

Where is the business's banking relationship? They might be able to recommend.

You need a good, decent sized firm of solicitors, who can then work with the company accountants.

Your issue might be that you want to do some of the work yourself - people think this cuts costs, but it actually makes things horribly complicated for the solicitors because you're constantly having to work out what you are advising on, what you're not etc and you inevitably get dragged into the stuff you're not officially getting paid to advise on.

With big, complex estates it really does pay just to let the solicitor get on with it, there are potentially some good tax planning options and you want to make sure you're getting good advice, which will inevitably come at a price.

The firm you use can be larger than a call centre type firm. Call centres are used for basic things like residential conveyancing, personal injury claims. If you want to PM me the rough area I may be able to make suggestions.

A good tax accountant will have handled the transfer of ownership of shareholdings in a private business (which is what this probate is).
Plus if its being retained
how best to structure the business going into the future.
They may also be aware of companies or clients in an industry who would be interested in buying the business or business assets.
Some industries will need specialist industry knowledge. So if you are not using an existing external tax and audit firm, before you sign on ask how many other companies in the industry they have as clients.
If stuck companies house normally list the accountant firm so look up competitors and see who they use.
As for paperwork a good scanner/printer and numbered pages would resolve any issues of distance.
Get a named partner or manager and details of who on the team is allocated your file and their respective charging rates.
Communications about what's needed and the date it's is needed why it's needed and who asked are always better by email/writing as it stops duplication or missing important bits.

Sorry for your loss🌻

Yes exactly what @SolasAnla said!

Thanks @SeasonFinale I have never sent a PM on mumsnet before but I think I just PMed you - hopefully that worked! Thanks

@SolasAnla thanks - we would like to keep the business in the family going forward rather than sell it - one member of the family already has expertise in this area. Thanks for the other tips

@BirdIsland yes you may be right but DP is adamant that with the right advice on a few glitchy tax issues we can do this ourselves (2/3 of the executors do not work so have time to do the labour once they get going on the right track) as the cut that most solicitors want would be a large % of the estate - and obviously we would prefer to keep those funds in the family!

Not too sure @Palavah but will look into this - thanks!

[quote Drivingslowtosavefuel]@BirdIsland yes you may be right but DP is adamant that with the right advice on a few glitchy tax issues we can do this ourselves (2/3 of the executors do not work so have time to do the labour once they get going on the right track) as the cut that most solicitors want would be a large % of the estate - and obviously we would prefer to keep those funds in the family![/quote]
I can see his point, not from a business perspective but just from the probate one.

It wasn't my inheritance but the amount my parents paid to solicitors for things I could have done....sadly I think there was an element of "can the baby of the family really do this", completely ignoring age and career.

Also, the "estimate" they got from the firm...I told them to double it. I was present for the meeting on which the estimate was based. It was very clear to anyone with good admin skills that the estimate was poor.

I'm not having a go at my folks. They were bereaved, not thinking straight, and had no recent experience with so,icitirs.

Sorry, that was ranty!

What type of vehicle is the business in - company, sole trade, partnership.
What is your intention for the business, if it is still viable without the deceased.

Speak to Bill Singh
www.richard-anthony.co.uk/

He is a Chartered Tax Adviser, Chartered Accountant, STEP Qualified

I always use him for complicated tax issues. He will know.