Claim deceased parents pension or find out more ?

[DaisyStiener]

DP passed away when I was a child. I’m the only dependent and DP wasn’t in a relationship ( so no spouse etc) and no will left.

DGPs have “ hidden” /kept/stashed DP ashes but have never told me where ? I’ve tried to find out if they’ve been interred at local cemeteries etc but no joy. All family shut me down when , as an adult , I ask where they are.

Pension: so DP died young but paid into pensions.
How do I find out if DGPs are claiming the pension and not me? Am I not the next-of-kin? Or do parents of deceased override me?
Has anyone done this before ? I have basically no information on this: DP passed nearly 30 years ago
DGPs paid other surviving siblings a few thousand each, a few years ago - surviving parent thinks that this may have been DPs pension - as this would have been around the right age for it?

( I’ve received nothing from DGPs over the years,despite having a good relationship- or so I thought )

I’m not sure if I completely understand your family setup. However, if there were assets and there was a will or a pension nomination, the trustees would have distributed the assets as per the will/nomination. If you were a financial dependant, a claim should have been made against the estate if you were left out of the will.

@ForensicAccountant there was no will

If they passed when you were a minor, I thought their pensions were legally due to you. Not an expert though.

@DaisyNGO I would’ve thought so too? But DGP still alive?( or one of them)

You would have been next of kin, not your Grandparents, so any assets should have passed to you. Can you see a solicitor? Do you know what assets there were ?

Do you know where your parent was working (who for) and approximately when they would have been contributing?
Pensions have changed quite a bit over the years, so it would help to have a bit of a steer on what pension they may have had.
The MoneySavingExpert forum (pension section) is full of really knowledgeable people who might know if it was a big firm or public sector. The latter would be easiest to find out rules.

Why do you think you’d have a higher claim that surviving parent? Were they divorced or unmarried?

For a Defined Benefit pension, there is usually an ongoing spouse payment but not absolute right for a child dependent. That’s usually discretionary, and when applied if for under 18 - or 23 if in education, rules vary.
I can’t see that they’d make a discretionary award to a parent.

The money going to your deceased parent’s siblings recently sounds like a red herring. If it’s a Defined Contribution scheme, when someone dies, the pension doesn’t sit until they would have reached retirement age. It’s passed on immediately, with different taxation rules depending on whether they’re over or under 75.

I think start by working out what kind of a pension they might have had - can your other parent help with that?

[quote DaisyStiener]@DaisyNGO I would’ve thought so too? But DGP still alive?( or one of them)[/quote]
I thought dependents took precedence, but as I say, not an expert.

Do you know for sure there was no will? I think you can check with a government dept?

@Cocomarine oh 75? I was told it would’ve been paid out when DP woudve hit their retirement age?
Parents were not together - has no clue about pension info.

Definitely no will as DP was very young and died unexpectedly @DaisyNGO

Would there have been much of an estate? There may be a probate record even if there wasn’t a will. You can search them online.

@CactusFlowers no probably not much at all( it was more the principal)
What’s a probate record pls?

Just to add - I mention about different rules for DC pension taxation dependent on age at death… but this was 30 years ago, no idea if it was the same then!

[quote DaisyStiener]@Cocomarine oh 75? I was told it would’ve been paid out when DP woudve hit their retirement age?
Parents were not together - has no clue about pension info.

Definitely no will as DP was very young and died unexpectedly @DaisyNGO[/quote]
Huge disclaimer @DaisyStiener that all my knowledge is for pensions now not both the pension types and legislation around them 30 years ago!

My reference to 75 isn’t the age it would have paid out but taxation rules - ignore that for now!

The thing about a DC pension, is it’s held outside of your estate. So it’s not subject to your will, and doesn’t follow the same rules for intestacy. Payment follows an “expression of wishes” form, and is at the discretion of trustees. If your parent had nominated their parent, say because you weren’t born yet, or they didn’t know a child could have it, or they thought their parent would manage it for you - then yes it could go to their parent, legally. I would expect the trustees to ask about dependents though, and possibly over ride the expression of wish to pay directly to the child. Again though, I’m coming at this as a 2021 person, not 1981.

Defined Benefit also works on expression of wish, but I think you basically can’t wish it to anyone other than spouse or dependent.

When I asked about info from surviving parent, I don’t mean that they would know the ins and outs. I mean on where your deceased parent worked. Basically, if they come back and say, “oh he worked in the council housing office” or “Tesco” then you’ve got a much better chance of taking an educated guess at the type of pension he might have had.

With a DC pension, if it went to someone else, the date at which they could access it wouldn’t be based on your deceased parent’s “coming of age” but their own age. So if your grandparent had the money, I doubt they could access it a few years ago.

[quote DaisyStiener]@CactusFlowers no probably not much at all( it was more the principal)
What’s a probate record pls?[/quote]
This explains about probate. www.gov.uk/applying-for-probate

And you can search for records here. www.gov.uk/search-will-probate

@Cocomarine thank you that’s helpful
Can I ask you to clarify the last part pls?
“but their own age”
So if DP would’ve received pension at say 60/65- that’s NOT relevant to when it would/could be paid out?

@CactusFlowers thanks!

Just to add, thirty years ago Tesco had a defined benefit scheme. I know the poster was not suggesting that the deceased worked at Tesco, but my point is - far more employers had DB schemes then and DC schemes (or money purchase as they were called) were barely know. I worked for Boots back then, we had a DB scheme I was in until 1999, and they were still very common even in the early nineties.

Knowing the employer would be fabulous, a really good start. But don't get your hopes up - there may not be a dependent's pension (you'd be too old to claim it now anyway), or the life element/pot (if DC) may have been paid out to the gps who may have been nominated or may have lied.

Or there may not even have been one. Not everyone paid in, it wasn't compulsory and if this parent was a woman far more likely they opted out.
And if they died young, it's not likely to have amounted to much.

But definitely worth trying to trace it.

[quote DaisyStiener]@Cocomarine thank you that’s helpful
Can I ask you to clarify the last part pls?
“but their own age”
So if DP would’ve received pension at say 60/65- that’s NOT relevant to when it would/could be paid out?[/quote]
If it was a defined benefit scheme there would be a life assurance element paid out on death. It's usually a multiplier of salary if they are still employed (4x is common) or about a third of the payable pension if they no longer worked there.

Then the actual pension may have included a spouse and dependent's pension. But it may not. They don't all. And with some you had to choose - obviously choosing to cover spouse etc means less pension for the individual so not everyone opted in to that.

And that all depends if they were still in employment when they died.

If it was a defined contribution scheme then it's just a pot of money, held in trust outside the estate, which would have been passed to either a nominated person (but loads of people don't fill in the nomination forms) or whoever dealt with the estate. The trustees should make reasonable efforts to pass it on to who they think the deceased would have wanted it to go to. But the gps may have lied. The pension scheme may have had no idea there was any offspring.

[quote DaisyStiener]@Cocomarine thank you that’s helpful
Can I ask you to clarify the last part pls?
“but their own age”
So if DP would’ve received pension at say 60/65- that’s NOT relevant to when it would/could be paid out?[/quote]
For a DC pension, no. I’m pretty sure your beneficiaries can access it immediately. There is a choice now of taking it all out as a lump sum, or leaving it in the pension fund and drawing it down gradually. The benefit of the latter is that it avoids inheritance tax. Lump sum becomes part of the estate and subject to inheritance tax. I’m pretty sure (but not certain!) that that choice was part of a huge amount of pension legislation changes in 2015 though!

A DC pension might have legitimately been left to grandparents. You can nominate anyone, or a charity.

Again, talking to your living parent might give some clues. If they started working for a company before you were born and were still there when they died, and it was a DC pension - then it’s very likely that they just nominated their own parent when they first did the paperwork, and never thought to change it.

Noting that your parent didn’t have a will… someone who didn’t write a will is probably someone who wouldn’t have thought to keep nomination forms up to date!

I’m pretty sure (but not certain!) that that choice was part of a huge amount of pension legislation changes in 2015 though!

It was either then - it was part of pension freedoms where we were all going to draw out the lump sum and buy a Lamborghini.

Sorry, it was then!

Yes! There’s a lot of talk about “older” people being lucky with gold plated pensions. But I reckon there’s a sweet spot of people old enough to have a DB pension, but young enough to enjoy the 2015 freedoms!