Divorce & Pension - what is 'standard arrangement' please ?

[52andblue]

background:
married 20 years. Had much icsi IVF due to male factor infertility (which left me with permanent health issue). 2 kids, both Autistic, both receive High care & mobility DLA and I am their Carer. I am full on 24/7 available to them. Thus I have not worked during marriage. exH (possibly also autistic but not dx?) is very rigid. Very little input into raising children, I was left to it, whilst he worked f/t. No 'support' in any sense, so not only could i not work but even an 'evening out' alone happened once every 5 yrs. (he is also controlling & abusive, so.....

I have finally spoken to a lawyer about a Separation (prelude to Divorce in Scottish law - I'm in Scotland, but legally binding in itself).

She asked 'what I want to do about pensions'. (i have legal aid which is enough to cover the paperwork but not advice it seems?). As exH works in a manual job the 'pension pot' is small - 10K -. Am I supposed to ask for 50% of this ? Do I then get any ongoing payment upon retirement or is it simply a case of half the 'pot'.
I'm Embarrassed that I don't know even this, but I don't. Can anyone advise the standard way these things work please?

I wouldn’t know either so don’t be embarrassed. I’m sure someone will come along soon and help. Good luck 🤞

How old are you, do you have years of NI contributions, either direct or credits? A 10k pension pot seems very small, or do you mean a pot that will pay 10k pa on retirement?

You are very unlikely to get an ongoing payment in retirement.

You can apply for a pension sharing order. I did this when divorcing although it cost upwards of £3k but the pension I was awarded was worth it. I wouldn’t know if going down this route would be worth the amount you would get? Regardless of what you do good luck with your journey ❤️

Also to add the pension sharing would give you a percentage of his pension, you can then access this at retirement age, dependant on the pension it can be a yearly pension or possibly commuted to a partial lump sum and yearly amount.

What other equity does the marriage have and how are you planning to split that? England so may be different, but when DH and I split we added up all the equity from everywhere and divided the total in half, then decided which bits each wanted - ie instead of half the pension, half the house equity etc I could have had more house but less pension.

The pension split we agreed meant that money was moved from his pension pot to my pension pot. However, your pot is relatively small and it may not be worth splitting it that way. It might be better to have more other equity and let him keep the pension.

DO check your entitlement to state pension - if you haven’t worked you may need to top up to make sure you get full state pension when you retire.

It's not the value of the pension they work off, it's the cash equivalent transfer value. Your husband needs to ask his provider for a CETV.
You are entitled to half, but you can negotiate your other assets around it. So he gets to keep it but you get more equity from the house for example.
Or you can do pension sharing which might be better when you reach retirement age?

I'm 52. I have some NI credits (but I don't know if enough to get a state pension, I need to check this...!!! I guess I call the DWP to ask?)

The pension will be small (he is a bus driver) but chances of returning to work & building up a decent pension for myself are smaller.

The 10K figure is what he has told me he would get 'if he cashed out his pension now'. I will try to double check though.

It's not worth spending much money sorting out as there is so little to 'argue over' financially but I don't want a penurous old age if poss.

You can check state pension here

www.gov.uk/check-state-pension

You really need proper advice, and it doesn't sound right that legal aid won't cover it. That certainly isn't the case with legal aid south of the border, (I'm a family solicitor, but English). I think your solicitor needs to explain better.

Ok, I checked.
He says it is a £10K lump sum / cash in value.
Then 10K per year pension (if he took it now)

@MrsBertBibby

THANK YOU so much.
I've checked: I have 31 years of full contributions, 13 years left.
But 7 years (from a loooong time ago) when contribution shortfall.
This is 1987 & 1991-96.
Does anyone know if I can 'pay up' these years?
(I am sure I was not working full time during this time & on benefits)

ah sorry I see that it IS far too late to 'pay them up'.
The 1987 one says I have contributions from paid employment of £81.00 (I was a student). The others are blank except 95/96 which have NI contributions of 15 weeks and 50 weeks from DLA credits I think.

@52andblue

Ok, I checked. He says it is a £10K lump sum / cash in value. Then 10K per year pension (if he took it now)

These are two very very different things.

A £10k per year pension is worth about £300k. Or maybe more if he can take it in his 50s….

Oh, Crap. Does this mean I won't get a state pension either?

(sorry for stream of consciousness postings, any advice welcome)

3 of those years I was a full time student at Uni.

@Mumoftwoinprimary

ah, okay. I'm going to ask if he will disclose his pension statement (he told me he got one recently). He says he is 'telling me what I need to know' but a. as demonstrated here I don't have any background knowledge about pensions / even know my own NI record so clearly dopey about finances & I need to get my act together and b. I have some long term health issues that mean my concentration / recall is poor atm so I'd like to make sure the lawyer advises me in case I fail to get what I should through stupidity basically.

Thank you !

@Mumoftwoinprimary

he has sent me a copy of his works pension statement.
pension started in 2000. He is 56 (can retire age 55 onwards: aims to keep working until 67 but health may preclude that, who knows)

Lump sum is: 9,888.51
Annual pension is: 9, 728.51

He has made it clear he 'doesn't see why I should get any of it'.

It seems fair to me that I should get 50% esp as there is no way he could have afforded to keep working & pay childcare for our two kids. He's sneered at me many times that 'there's no way I'm living on Carer's allowance & having no life - why should I do that?'
But, fine for me it seems as someone needs to raise our kids.

Yep - there is money there.

Have a read of this - it explains how annuities work quite well.

www.which.co.uk/money/pensions-and-retirement/options-for-cashing-in-your-pensions/annuities/annuity-rates-aly8c2z86kds

thanks @Mumoftwoinprimary - you've been very kind & helpful.

I might also ask for this to be moved to the £ section to help me too.

@52andblue don’t get too hung up on annuities.
They used to be a fairly standard way to “buy” a pension - when you retire, you use your pension fund to buy one, the companies offer you an amount per year, guaranteed, for your purchase price. That’s simplified, but just to give you the basic idea!

However, what it appears your husband has is what’s known as a “defined benefit” scheme. That means, what you get out of it at retirement (the benefit) has already been defined. So instead of having a pot of cash that needs to be invested by the pensioner or used to buy that annuity, you already have a promised benefit: that £9728.51 per year.

A benefit like that would tend to be far better than any annuity rate on the market.

So the ideal here may be for you to have a share of that scheme. How that works depends on the scheme itself, but in schemes where it is possible, your share would be split off and placed in your name - you’d become a member of that pension scheme in your own right. It is complex, and I would expect a solicitor to refer you to a pensions specialist on that.

Can I recommend the Money Saving Expert forum, pension board? Just as here it doesn’t replace expert advice, but the level of knowledge there is fantastic and may help you get your head straight!

Just some other points to consider:

One big difference in Scottish law on this is that pension built up pre-marriage is excluded in divorce. I know you’ve been married 20 years, but if he’s 56 then there’s a fair chance some of that pension was built up before marriage. Also, with the many changes to pension schemes over the years - basically, becoming less generous - you may find that more of the value of his was pre-marriage than you think.

Not saying that to panic you! Just don’t make any decisions until you have full disclosure. For example, you don’t want to agree 50%, then realise that is 50% of only last 20 years not full benefit.

Another thing to note is understanding the statement. Often they show a projection of what you would get if you worked until the expected scheme retirement date - not only what you’ve already “banked”, as it were. So do be careful to check the statement.

The most important thing at this point is not to be bullied into anything without full information. And expect him to lie.

Hi @Cocomarine
thanks for your reply.
This pension started in 2000 (he joined the Co in '97 just after we moved in together) so I've been married to him for most of it.
I've seen the Statement provided by his employers.
It is quite basic. It says: £10K lump sum (which stays static)
£10K p/a if he retired and drew it now. £17k p/a if he draws it in 12 years when he is due to retire.
I'm not really clear what I should be asking for or when?

@52andblue You'll probably, almost definitely get his pension.

My current partner gave marital home & rental home to his ex wife worth 1.3m He kept his business worth 1.3mil

Judge said he had to give his whole 300k pension to ex wife as well. Married 15 years, she didn't work at all.

I've been married 20 years.
We have two children who both have Autism, (both get high Care DLA) so I am their Carer. I have basically not worked since the eldest was born (partly as exH refused to alter his hours of shift work / share childcare so it was impossible as no family support / local back up).
I'm now 53, he's moved out, so I'm living on Carers allowance topped up by Income Support. There is a house but it has almost NO equity. He says I can 'have that' but doesnt want to share the pension. I am worried as, by the time our youngest is 18 (& realistically, they will need more support than most into their 20's I imagine) I will be nearly 60. I'lI have a state pension (though I've checked & I have 7 years with insufficient income so I hope I will get it, argh...). The mortgage is interest only so although he is currently saying: 'have all the equity, for the rest of your life' actually there is hardly any equity (maybe 10K?) and it has to be sold in 8 years anyway so that won't help me aged 70.

[quote Champersandchocolate]@52andblue You'll probably, almost definitely get his pension.

My current partner gave marital home & rental home to his ex wife worth 1.3m He kept his business worth 1.3mil

Judge said he had to give his whole 300k pension to ex wife as well. Married 15 years, she didn't work at all. [/quote]
Well he didn’t “give” them to her - they were assets too, as they were marital assets.

I don’t think it’s helpful to compare £2.6m+ assets to the OP’s situation.

Was your boyfriend divorced under Scottish law? I’ll take a guess here that you’re not even talking about the same jurisdiction.

On what basis are you saying the OP will “almost definitely” get his pension? I doubt you’re a Scotland-qualified solicitor working in family law.

Yes - I am in Scotland so under Scottish law.

Sounds like the pension is the only asset worth anything. So of course he is trying to get out of sharing it. Don't bother engaging in any conversations with him over it, he is lying and will no doubt continue to. Tell the lawyer you want at least 50% of the pension, and let them get on with it.