Pensions and Divorce

[oneranksenior]

My H recently told me he wants us to separate. I'd been thinking the same, but he raised it first and for me it's too soon. We are in our early mid-60s and our youngest DD is at home. I'd been thinking to separate when we retire and want to downsize and move house when the time was right.
Question I have raised with solicitors is, 'does it make a difference financially whether we separate before or after he retires and takes his substantial pension?' (He spends so much time looking at his pension spreadsheet un-aware that I will be entitled to 50% of it if we divorce).
The solicitors have said it doesn't matter, other than he could take his tax free 25% and squander it. I have read however that pension before retirement is seen as an asset and after as income. He hasn't mentioned divorce perhaps as pensions are not considered in a separation financial settlement. So it is likely that I will have to initiate divorce. I want to stall this as long as possible as it will be me that has to sort out and sell the house and I want our DD to be settled. H has given an indication that he will retire at 66 in 4 years, he could retire at anytime.
One other thing he has a serious health issue, if he dies before me, I assume that would be the end of his pension?
Has anyone experience or knowledge of pensions. Both my pensions are defined benefit pensions so I've never investigated pension funds. We both have pensions which we have been receiving payment since turning 60. I have a defined benefit pension for my current job.

Cocomarine it doesn’t matter what you think, legally they have contributed jointly during their long marriage and the OP is entitled to take half of the assets.

How do you know his pension is worth 5 times yours if yours is DB and his is DC but you haven't had valuations on either?

As PP have said, your assets will be up for a 50:50 split as much as his.

@Jerseygirl12

Cocomarine it doesn’t matter what you think, legally they have contributed jointly during their long marriage and the OP is entitled to take half of the assets.

No. The OP is entitled to a fair share of the assets

Palavah because he told me how much was in his pension pot and I could estimate how much is in mine as I got 25% of it (tax free).

@Jerseygirl12

Cocomarine it doesn’t matter what you think, legally they have contributed jointly during their long marriage and the OP is entitled to take half of the assets.

@Jerseygirl12 If you’ve read the thread, you’ll see that I’ve made EXACTLY the same point to the OP though. That it doesn’t matter what I think - by way of illustrating that it doesn’t matter what her husband thinks 😁

I guess because it’s only OP’s posts that get highlighted in one colour, it’s not so obvious when someone replies several times though.

@oneranksenior

Palavah because he told me how much was in his pension pot and I could estimate how much is in mine as I got 25% of it (tax free).

Ok - careful though because DB lump sum isn't always calculated in the same way.

@Cocomarine

I appreciate my (our) opinion is an unpopular one 🤣

And yes lots of people/women do all life admin and also work full time (me being one of them!) . I think we are already seeing a shift in what the court considers an "equal" contribution in marriage and staying at home once children are in school doesn't carry the same weight as it once did. It becomes a choice not necessarily necessity

Staying off work to support your parents might have been the "decent" thing to do but you were only able to do so because your husband continued to work. He has no moral, legal or financial obligation to your parents And any savvy (cutthroat?!) lawyer will argue that when it comes to division of assets including the pension

Any inheritance received form your parents would also be included as a marital asset by the way and up for division

The law doesn't automatically grant you 50/50 (or more) it's a starting point for negotiation especially where you are also receiving your own pension

he has a serious health issue, if he dies before me, I assume that would be the end of his pension?

It depends - under "earmarking" or "pension sharing" you would still continue to receive whatever was awarded

@oneranksenior

twinningatlife The person at home should not be under-valued. I am responsible for all domestic matters, the shopping, cooking, cleaning, the decorating, minor house maintenance, the garden, the car. I always have been, as I gave up a career at a higher level than H to have his children. I looked after my elderly infirm parents until their deaths because it was the decent thing to do. All the solicitors I have spoken to have said that this contribution to the marriage counts equally with the spouse who goes out to work. Yes PlanDeRaccordement it would be 50% of the assets combined; the cost of the divorced will be huge though.

I agree that there should be a 50/50 split, but you’re making it sound like he forced you to have children for him, forced you to look after your own parents. Personally I think you’re very fortunate that he supported your decision to forgo contributing to the household finances to care for your parents. I don’t think my dh would be quite so keen. You made that choice with his support. Own the decisions you made.

I agree in principle that it seems unfair that things are shared 50/50 when one party has not contributed equally. I don’t think generally anyone needs to work part time or not at all for 40 years unless there is circumstances such as a disabled joint child you are caring for full time. Too many women on mn claim they can’t work because of “life admin” - single parents (like me), work, juggle children and life. Makes me glad I didn’t marry my ex - I was the higher earner with most assets.

CayrolBaaaskin I don't understand your second sentence, but I haven't spent the last 40 years not working or only working part-time!
For nearly 2 decades I earned more than H, then had children, aged parents, so didn't work outside the home, BUT then have worked part-time in a low paid salaried job, whilst I've ran two successful businesses. I will work longer than H in total number of years, I just won't have earned as much as H has.
He who apart from money has contributed so little to family/domestic life. He can't/won't cook, won't clean or attend to where he lives, who only attended one parent's evening throughout all years of this children's education, would rather go to the pub than attend their children's school prize giving. I could go on and on. He has lead a single life doing what every he wants, holidays just booked and gone on without a word. Left me to go to hospital on my own for childbirth as he wanted to sleep. I have contributed an immense amount to family life. Perhaps I want some pay back. He's had a very competent nanny and housekeeper; it would have cost him far much more if he'd employed one.
All I wanted advice on was about pensions....

oneranksenior you’re getting a hard time here, undeservedly. Get yourself to a good family law solicitor and file for divorce. After such a long marriage everything starts at 50/50 and everything goes in the pot. If his pension is 5 times yours he’ll probably be transferring a tidy sum to your pension pot. FWIW I was awarded 90% equity in the FMH and a generous pension share which gives us equal incomes in retirement when I divorced my higher earner ex a few years ago. ‘Fair’ very rarely means 50/50 after a long marriage.

Db pensions aren’t based on a ‘pot’. Does he mean that annual amount of pension or has he already had a CETV calculated?

@twinningatlife
Any inheritance received form your parents would also be included as a marital asset by the way and up for division

Not quite as straightforward as you have stated...

www.divorce.co.uk/your-finances/inheritance

A friend of mine was recently divorced in his 70's. A strange petition alleging he had failed to show sufficient interest in gardening and spent too much time years ago with his mother. Anyway, she had tiny pension from a shop job and he had a quite large one from a professional career. They were both drawing their pensions. The investments which generated the income being drawn were split 50/50 as it was a long marriage. There were quite a lot of fees to be paid to actuaries and for valuations along the way.
My friend was advised that his ex was not entitled to the proportion of the assets that were invested before the marriage, but it would have cost even more in solicitors and valuation fees to work those out so they just divided 50/50. Wife hadn't worked much outside the home but had been a SAHM and he fully acknowledged she was due half. Hope this helps.