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Can we afford this house? What would you do?

140 replies

Enessie · 06/09/2021 01:50

A bit of background: me and dh are in our 40s. We have 2 primary school aged dc in state school. Our joint income is 155k so roughly £8600 post tax per month. Current mortgage is small.
Our current house is fine, and can be easily extrnded to create another room or two. During the lock down we suddenly need to create 2 home offices in the house and this nudged us to move to a bigger house, plus we got caught up in this house craze and FOMO as we witness house price increases week by week.
So, long story short, we put our house on the market and sold quickly. However the hunt for our next house hasn't gone so smoothly. When we started looking, we had in mind the budget of of 500-600k, but this has been pushed up many notches after we lost a few bidding wars. Houses that fit our requirements don't come up often in the small area we are considering.
Sorry for being long winded. So after many months of searching, we are committed to buy one at 750k, it is much bigger than what we set out to buy but is a real beauty. It still needs about 150k of renovation
So my questions is:
If we buy this house, the estimated house related bill (mortgage payment + council tax + utilities + home insurance) will be around £2200. Both me and dh only started working in early 30s so our pension is not an encouraging sight. We started in recent years to put everything over £50k into sipp. So effectively our salaries in only £50k each, i.e. around £6300 in total per month. So the house bill is over 1/3 of our income. Do you think that is manageable or a bit tight?
Our other household expenses amount to about £2+k, so technically, if nothing goes wrong, we should have about £2k spare each month. As mentioned, the house needs renovation, we only have £40k for renovation now so the other £100+k will need to be saved over the years to carry out the work in stages. Meaning that we won't be able to overpay the mortgage for at least the first 5 years. The renovation costs could also rise as material and labour cost rise.
Our mortgage term is 30 years. Meaning that if we don't overpay, this will take us into 70s. My question is, are we too old to take on such a big debt? 30 years is a long time and anything can happen. We have never been our of work but hey who can guarantee the same for the future.
If we don't buy this house, we can be pretty much mortgage free in 5 years time. Dh has to go back to office soon and now only need 1 wfh day. So, we could play it safe and stay and extend. However, my house is a bog standard 1930s house and after the extension would have reached the ceiling value of the street. The new house is oozing with features and characters. I am also thinking if it makes more financial return if we buy the big house. When we are old and want to downsize, the big house would have appreciated more in value.
Sorry for being so long winded and rambling away. What would you do? Bite the bullet and buy the new house, saddled with a 30 years mortgage but gained a dream home, or stay and be mortgage free in 5 years?

OP posts:
NoSquirrels · 06/09/2021 10:04

Why not spend the £150K on a really nice architect-planned extension and upgrade to your existing house. Get all the mods you want etc.

Yes, yes, ceiling price etc. But you’re essentially making the decision about lifestyle but asset class, really - and it sounds like your DH is not aligned with the idea of the maintenance and upkeep of a larger property. And if he knows that now he’s definitely not going to feel differently later when you’re mid-renovation scrimping for 5 years.

You have to strike a balance between life now, and enjoyment in where you live, and asset growth and retirement planning.

I’d stay put and have a really nice upgrade to my home.

Schoolchoicesucks · 06/09/2021 10:05

You're not a middle income family, OP, you're in the top 5%.

A mortgage of £1,650 a month is very low compared to your joint income. It seems very affordable. On the other hand, a 30 year term is nuts - unless you have a different plan to clear it off, such as downsizing.

You do also have the option to reduce what you pay into SIPPs if you needed to.

I think the refurbishment is the issue here- do you want to spend the next 5 years saving for the refurb, living in a house while work is being done to it and diying what you can?

Or would you prefer to have free weekends and more disposable income?

Honestly, with 2 primary aged dc, I'd look again for something that needed less work or do the extension on your current house.

arootintootingoodtime · 06/09/2021 10:07

I agree with some of the PPs, in that, yes, you can most likely afford the house, but it does not sound like the soundest investment pension-wise (good advice earlier about maximising SIPPs) or like you have the particular dream to renovate the house.

Although you can afford the house, the increase in renovation costs is not unlikely, plus I suspect that you are going to have a big jump in running costs moving to an older and bigger property. Does some of the renovation needed include insulation, double-glazing or replacing heating? If so, the bills could be extortionate for the first few years.

On the renovation, it doesn't sound like your DH is particularly committed to it. Honestly, a big renovation projects needs to be your dream as it is such a hassle you really have to be driven to get through it.

I'm not saying that moving is the wrong thing entirely, but it really doesn't sound like this is the right property, more that you've felt like your back is against the wall with a hot market and having missed out on several properties.

Enessie · 06/09/2021 10:07

@Winter2020

My main concern if I were you would be job loss. How secure do you think your jobs are and could you pick up another at similar pay fairly easily. I don’t earn a lot at all so I think I would have a good chance of picking up another job that covers my outgoings quickly. You couldn’t pick up any random job and cover those outgoings - you would have to stay as high earners or else lose your house.

Do you have children that will want to go to university? Your high income will mean you are expected to help them quite a bit financially. If you have more than one go at a time then that could be a lot of money. Do you want to have savings to help your kids with a house deposit - or even to have and insure a car - several thousand a year at first.

The other questions I would be wondering about (to myself to think about/turn over) are “Why buy in a boom if you are in no rush? - (your house is Ok), “Will I mind if the house value falls and I am in negative equity?” “Can I cooe if interest rates rise a little/ a bit more”, “Am I doing the right thing buying something much more expensive than I planned that still requires renovation on top?”

If you love the house and want to spend time and money on renovations to make it your pride and joy then go for it. Are you a home bird? If you want a comfortable home but want to get out and about with the kids on holidays and activities (with a low maintenance property) then keep looking or take a break and look when things are less crazy.

Thanks. Lots of good questions to ponder on. I was thinking the kids can get loan for their uni but I don't know what is the rules around it, who's is allowed and how much is allowed. Regarding buying in a boom, the price just keep on rising. We thought it would have cool down after the sd holiday. Some experts are saying it is fueled by large amount of money printing and these money will inevitably flow to stock and property market hence inflate prices.. I don't know what to believe
OP posts:
garannenee · 06/09/2021 10:11

The 750k house & mortgage isn't a problem but perhaps find one without renovation as that seems the sticking point.

titchy · 06/09/2021 10:11

Dunno about the house but the mortgage is peanuts given your salaries so don't worry about that at all. We're paying more than that with two thirds your income and still managing to overpay and fund kids through uni.

Claudethecat · 06/09/2021 10:11

@wedwewerpink

Personally I would go the low mortgage/mortgage free route...if/when the shit hits the fan (like it just has for the last 2 years) then you are in a much safer position. I am currently mortgage free and I wouldn't change it if I REALLY REALLY didn't have to.
I agree with this. Being mortgage free is a huge asset.
mistermagpie · 06/09/2021 10:12

Personally I would go with a cheaper house and work less or just look forward to being mortgage free. It doesn't sound like we have much in common though so my advice is probably useless to you!

But also, there is a middle ground to the super expensive house that needs renovations and the house you currently live in - I would maybe explore that. I get that you said there isn't much out there but it doesn't sound like you are in a rush.

Ultimately though, if this was 'the' house, you wouldn't be posting on here.

Doubledoorsontogarden · 06/09/2021 10:19

We did it, really upgraded our home and not looked back, it feels expensive to begin with but then it feels normal. Overpay if you can. I’m reining in travel for a bit and spending more time in my home. Lockdown has meant that I’ve spent a lot of time at home, I didn’t realise how much it got me down until I moved.

As you get older you might change hours at work, if so pay chunks off your mortgage if you can. I’m looking to pay £50k off mine when it comes to get a new deal on n 2 yrs time

Enessie · 06/09/2021 10:21

@arootintootingoodtime

I agree with some of the PPs, in that, yes, you can most likely afford the house, but it does not sound like the soundest investment pension-wise (good advice earlier about maximising SIPPs) or like you have the particular dream to renovate the house.

Although you can afford the house, the increase in renovation costs is not unlikely, plus I suspect that you are going to have a big jump in running costs moving to an older and bigger property. Does some of the renovation needed include insulation, double-glazing or replacing heating? If so, the bills could be extortionate for the first few years.

On the renovation, it doesn't sound like your DH is particularly committed to it. Honestly, a big renovation projects needs to be your dream as it is such a hassle you really have to be driven to get through it.

I'm not saying that moving is the wrong thing entirely, but it really doesn't sound like this is the right property, more that you've felt like your back is against the wall with a hot market and having missed out on several properties.

Yes it probably needs all the reno you mentioned. I probably haven't mentioned it is also grade2 listed
OP posts:
ILoveAllRainbowsx · 06/09/2021 10:25

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NoSquirrels · 06/09/2021 10:25

Oh god - Grade 2 Listed? There are lots of hoops to jump through with a listed building…

Iwonder08 · 06/09/2021 10:26

I would buy. You have a healthy budget ballance

ILoveAllRainbowsx · 06/09/2021 10:27

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PissedOffNeighbour22 · 06/09/2021 10:29

Our income is a third of yours but our new house cost £400k. It also needs a lot spending on renovation which like you, we intend to do over several years.
We easily manage the mortgage and will be looking to start overpaying small amounts by next year.
However, we do not live an expensive lifestyle. We don't run expensive cars, eat out etc. If we did, we wouldn't be able to afford the house easily.

I'd beware of the renovations costing more than you're planning for, so take that into account. Ours is definitely worse than the full survey suggested.

ShingleBeach · 06/09/2021 10:29

If you extend your current home the Council Tax stays the same. It isn’t re-banded to take account of extra rooms until you sell.

Maybe something to think about, finance wise.

Enessie · 06/09/2021 10:32

@PissedOffNeighbour22

Our income is a third of yours but our new house cost £400k. It also needs a lot spending on renovation which like you, we intend to do over several years. We easily manage the mortgage and will be looking to start overpaying small amounts by next year. However, we do not live an expensive lifestyle. We don't run expensive cars, eat out etc. If we did, we wouldn't be able to afford the house easily.

I'd beware of the renovations costing more than you're planning for, so take that into account. Ours is definitely worse than the full survey suggested.

You did a full survey and it fails to flag up issues? How much more did your reno costs, double?
OP posts:
AlbertBridge · 06/09/2021 10:33

I probably haven't mentioned it is also grade2 listed

😬 I feel a listed renovation should be a labour of love, not an investment purchase. It's just too risky in terms of costs.

Disclaimer: I'm basing this opinion on nothing more than watching a couple of Cash In The Attics.

moppat · 06/09/2021 10:33

How much are you actually borrowing? 1.8k a month on your salaries wouldn't worry me at all.

Winter2020 · 06/09/2021 10:36

Have a look at this calculator on the Martin Lewis website to see how your high income will affect your children at uni. It’s a bit worrying that at your income bracket and with kids still in primary school you already think you will struggle to help them - is it not?

www.moneysavingexpert.com/students/student-loan-parental-contribution-tool/

As for the economy furlough is ending. Despite all our lockdowns and crazy breaks to the economy household income has hardly fallen - because of furlough. That is ending now and we will begin to see the actual effects of the pandemic on our economy.

I’m not saying house prices must fall - but I struggle to believe they won’t settle down. In my opinion the next few years will be very painful for some. I don’t think consumer behaviour in retail or hospitality will bounce back quickly enough to save all of these businesses so as well as the workers, the business owners and property owners (business landlords and private landlords whose rent far exceed local housing allowance) will be affected. That’s far beyond what you were asking but I guess if it’s relevant to your decision consider where do you see the economy and house prices heading?

AlbertBridge · 06/09/2021 10:37

Disclaimer: I'm basing this opinion on nothing more than watching a couple of Cash In The Attics.

No! Sorry. My professional property expertise comes from Homes Under the Hammer.

My charity-shop wisdom is from Cash in the Attic.

DGFB · 06/09/2021 10:44

I’d also got to the big house now, reducing pensions to pay for it. You will gain so much and can always downsize if you need to

NoSquirrels · 06/09/2021 10:44

My DPs own a Grade 2 Listed building. They’ve just decided not to go ahead with something that would potentially improve the property long-term as the permissions process (and subsequent checks & sign-offs) take absolutely fucking forever and are incredibly bureaucratic.

Changing the existing porch, which was an non-period addition added well before the listing, and was disintegrating, to a more-in-keeping-with-the-house version took 9+ months…

Enessie · 06/09/2021 10:47

@Winter2020

Have a look at this calculator on the Martin Lewis website to see how your high income will affect your children at uni. It’s a bit worrying that at your income bracket and with kids still in primary school you already think you will struggle to help them - is it not?

www.moneysavingexpert.com/students/student-loan-parental-contribution-tool/

As for the economy furlough is ending. Despite all our lockdowns and crazy breaks to the economy household income has hardly fallen - because of furlough. That is ending now and we will begin to see the actual effects of the pandemic on our economy.

I’m not saying house prices must fall - but I struggle to believe they won’t settle down. In my opinion the next few years will be very painful for some. I don’t think consumer behaviour in retail or hospitality will bounce back quickly enough to save all of these businesses so as well as the workers, the business owners and property owners (business landlords and private landlords whose rent far exceed local housing allowance) will be affected. That’s far beyond what you were asking but I guess if it’s relevant to your decision consider where do you see the economy and house prices heading?

yes now that you mention, i am embarassed to be thinking i will struggle to help my kids out in uni. I need to get my priorities right -_-
OP posts:
AnnaSW1 · 06/09/2021 10:52

I think it's fine.