Parents giving me headache... help please!

[BloodyNora13]

In need if a bit of advice, please oh wise ones!

Long story short. My parents are elderly, and to our great alarm it turns out they have a substantial amount of cash. And it's cash. Its come to light as they are suddenly worried about their health and what will happen to it all. Not in any kind of institution, because they don't trust them, but it is definitely locked away in a very secure place, quite far away. They are kind of quack though.

My siblings and my siblings in law are all pretty close and see things the same way. Parents won't tell us where it is, nor how much exactly. Not that we've asked, it's none of our business- it's just that my parents have always been very secretive and weird.

They are now basically trying to get us to stash various bits for them which we don't want to do as there's no paper trail for where it's all come from and the possible consequences worry me sick! From what I can gather this is a lifetime worth of saving legitimately by living on next to nothing- as soon as income goes in, they draw it all out and stash away. My siblings and I have always paid for their bills because, being bank deniers, couldn't do direct debits and getting to places to pay bills has always been difficult for them. It always seemed mean to take it from them when they wanted to pay us back as its literally about £30 per month maximum for any bill. Wish we had now! They are typical absolute scrooges and no amount of encouraging them to spend anything on themselves has ever worked.

We don't want anything for ourselves, our biggest worry is for my brother, who is in good health but disabled and will need care. Due to our personal circumstances none of us would be able to take him in ourselves. Partner and I have always said that we would have him live near to us and support him day to day, for most days, he just wouldn't be able to live with us full time. Siblings and I have LPA for all affairs for my brother (jointly and severally) and there are no wills or funeral plans in place- something they have always refused to discuss. (Cos talking about it makes it more likely to happen apparently )

So my question is- oh I don't know what my question is. Where do I start? Help?

Oh, what a nightmare. Does your brother currently live with them? Would he be able to stay in their house when they pass, or is it too far away from the rest of you?

Can you frame it as needing to provide for your brother? If he'll need a house and adaptations paying for can they retrieve the money and start that process? Maybe if they use the money to buy a property near where you live and rent it out for now?

If the tax authorities etc want to investigate where the money came from, let them. If there's no evidence of any crime and just an unusual situation, they should be happy, or at least it will be an interesting puzzle for them. Simple maths will show the possibility of saving up a large sum over decades where income has exceed expenditure like this. Eg £100 a week over 30 years is over £150k.

Yup @BloodyNora13 IN the nicest possible way - I can see this is weird.

Are they intending to get the cash out by dribs and drabs and give it to you ?

So forgive me if you have thought of all of this but ( assuming all cash legitimate )

Look up what is allowed as a cash gift per annum & then you and siblings / in laws etc could each take this without any comeback to you - do check but I think there is a certain amount you can give as a gift legitimately - without tax. So depending on how many siblings / inlaws this may make a decent bite into the money & you can then between you decide whether you put it into an account for your brother or a general account which might cover parents' care.
I would encourage them if they want to give money to the family to look up the rules and give it out accordingly over the next few years. if this is what they have indicated

The only thing if this were e.g. in a bank account - would it be deprivation of assets in the event they needed care ( given you talked about their health ) . If it were me I would along with siblings be encouraging them to distribute the cash between you along HMRC guidelines and you and siblings / in law putting it in an account for their care or your brother's. but check deprivation of assets rules.

I am sure that is not dreadfully helpful and you will have thought of it.

I wish you well. & well done on LPA fo DBro - He may never need it but a great thing to have in place

All best

Basilisk

Oh bugger @BloodyNora13 - I think it may be a cash gift per giver so possibly one per parent not per receiver - might be worth checking on legal board. Anyway - ignore me now but just generally they have I believe some scope for legitimately giving away money. Once you get the rules - you know what can you properly deal with. I suspect easily googlable on HMRC or other .gov websites.

Are the notes still legal tender?.

F

Yes, I'd be worried that the notes were no longer legal tender. That''s the biggest problem here, not them giving you a stash to look after.

If they're not legal tender, they can still be paid into either any bank, or the Bank of England, depending on the age. But then obviously they come back into the system, who are likely to start asking questions.

I'd say the biggest problem is finding out where it is if they won't tell you! Have they even written it down anywhere for you to locate it after their deaths?!

I'd consider going into a local bank branch assuming you use a high street bank and asking for an appointment to talk to someone about it. I suspect it isn't that unusual and you will at least get all the correct advice.

If its notes from 1986 stuffed into a peach and white head sports bag, is it still even legal tender???

Have their mental problems worsened?
How did they pay bills when their children were small???

Step 1
You need to take them to the nearest high street branch and get a bank account opened. Their bills need to come out of that.
They can top up the account in cash the day before or whatever madness they are into but that is step 1.

Step 2
You need to chat about"what could happen?"
So if they die and no one knows where anything is it will all be lost in the annals of time. Their money may literally rot- is that actually what they want? No? Then they need a plan and need to tell people where stuff is.

Step 3
You get on with family which is great, leverage this.
Agree to "store the money" if thats what parents want.
you really wont get in trouble unless they literally have 500k /£1m cash hidden about the place. Do they???
Between all of you keep a communal gdoc or something with the £££ tracked.
You can deposit a thousand/two thousand a month easily without any flags into your accounts. I'd do this and put it into a S&S ISA if you aren't all maxing yours out already you can do up to 20k each per tax year.
You can use this for Your brother later in time.

Reading your post, my biggest fear would be they die and no one knows where the money is and your brother needs it for ongoing care.

You will probably need to change it to more up to date currency, I have visions of old white fivers kicking around.

Don’t worry about the large amount of cash, you can prove through their bank that they have withdrawn everything in cash once a month for the last however many years, you can prove you’ve paid their bills and it’s not unusual for elderly to have vast amounts of cash kicking around. My lovely uncle had £20k under his bed in cash.

I do not wish to worry anyone but whilst not the same problem - my DFIL would not do LPA , his bank account details were hidden - all fine because it is his money . But when he had a stroke it was such hard work. We ( DH and his siblings ) were lucky because he ( DFIL ) was a man of modest means we could pay the few bills he had whilst not able to do it himself whilst ill and before probate. But not sure what would have happened otherwise.

This made DH & I do a LPA for DS just in case it is ever needed & I am a firm believer just because you make a will / LPA does not bring the Grim Reaper upon you - it just makes things easier for your family .

So @BloodyNora13 I had not even thought about it being out of date. Or depending where they have put it - it could have been eaten by rats ( I exaggerate for effect ) I think step one is for them to put it in an actual bank account & then take it gently from there. If they are so concerned with keeping their money I suspect they will not like the thought as others have said of it all being lost. ( I know I am repeating other very sensible posts )

That said - easier said than done. There's none you can help who do not want to to be helped. I realise that.

Thanks so much for all of your replies- I've read them all repeatedly and thoroughly and am so grateful!

Yes my brother does live with them, the house is a small one, in a proper shitty horrible area, rented (I know!!) and it is too far from any of us. In any case brother needs background care and supervision most of the day. So he could manage in his own property if people were visiting regularly with maybe the odd hour here and there alone. But this is much more than social care can provide in his own home so its likely he'd need to move into supported living with some care hours, which he'd well be able to afford. Also wondering whether we could have our ground floor adapted specifically to accommodate my brother so he could stay with us om a regular basis if they could pay for it... I suspect paying however it much that costs in cash might be welcome to any builder but equally suss looking!

I know rather than suspect then, that a lot of this money is my brother's as they won't have support with his care and refuse to pay for respite! He's happy with the current arrangement.

Id already told my parents that we and they might be asked where it's come from and to provide some statements if so. This made them backtrack and say "no we'll keep it where it is, then" before moving on to my older sister, who said the same as me. @LivingLaVidaCovid Ibelieve it is a ridiculous amount they have, because one suggestion they had was for one of us to put our name on a house that they'll buy in cash while stashing the rest. I mean wtf.

Dad has a much older son from a previous marriage who is not part of the family - it was him who was sent out to bill pay when we were little. He has a gambling problem and respecting their rights not to share anything they dont want to now, he is the reason they won't write down where it is for us to find when they've died. He has some kind of bastard radar that tells him when to just turn up at the house eg when my lovely gran died (This is more reason for them to spend it/put it in banks/make wills etc surely!)

No idea if it is actually still legal tender! I think we'd all laugh our heads off with relief if it's been eaten by rats!

Thank you @BarbaraofSeville @BasiliskStare @Billybagpuss you've really reassured me there.

@Pashazade I will do just that, thank you!

I'll look into the ts and Cs of giving money away and have another chat with them.

Agree too LPA has given us so much peace of mind they ought to be compulsory!

I suspect paying however it much that costs in cash might be welcome to any builder but equally suss looking!

This might honeslty not be a bad shout.

Builders do take bank transfer and cash on the books and some even pay vat! this would help start setting up some provision for your brother.

I also still think look at taking some and setting up ISAs even if it's just for your kids to secure some of it. It is SUCH a waste otherwise.

I also think the advise further up about talking to the banks and getting some advise was a good suggestion.

In summary - Families are complex!!! Good luck

How much are they talking? Perhaps you can scare them into action by mentioning inheritance tax?

My parents are in their 70s and have been gifting money for the last decade to dodge inheritance tax.

@BloodyNora13 - " so I know rather than suspect then, that a lot of this money is my brother's as they won't have support with his care and refuse to pay for respite! He's happy with the current arrangement."

Hang on ,

So is some of this money your brother's given to him because of his disability. Or just they they have earmarked their money for him and not used it . If it his I think they need to put it somewhere in his name.

Sorry if misunderstood

Other family person notwithstanding.

My brother is happy with them continuing to manage his money, he does have capacity to make his own decisions around money and agreed for them to be DWP appointees. But doesn't have capacity for bigger and more complex decisions.

We had lots of talks with him over time when we set up the Property and Financial Affairs LPA, he was quite clear that mum and dad had always managed his money and he wanted them to carry on. He didn't mind even if he wasn't earning interest because he didn't need to pay for anything and understood that when he does, he'll still be able to live in the way he wants (doesn't ask for much) and so trusted them to do whatever they thought was best.

I can't agree that was in his best interests but we all agreed he understood his choice, and that was his informed choice with the knowledge that our parents are bonkers. He does have an account with a balance in it which was opened because they had a 'bank" at his school and he wanted one - I'll talk to him about getting his money moved there.

We knew back then that parents were miserly and didn't trust banks or any kind of institution for that matter, but no idea or anticipation of things being the way they are now.

Conversation with mum today.
Me: I don't need to know how much or where your money is but obviously you're worried about it so let's move it somewhere safe.
Mum: But they'll steal it! Or they'll take it all away.
Me: Who?
Mum: The Government.
Me: Spend it all then. Go on coach holidays, buy what you want, clothes, eat what you want, take my brother out more. Or burn it then you won't have to worry about it.
Mum: We can only eat so much. Weve got enough clothes. Your brother doesn't want to go anywhere. We can't go in holiday anyway but even if we did, someone would have to stay and look after the house.
Dad shouting in the background: You're all so ungrateful, you're all bastards! The last time we ask you for any help!

We've never asked them for anything nor have they ever offered to help any of us out- they've always made out they're dirt poor tbh. Eg we can't put the heating on, we only get a pension. We couldn't possibly get a taxi it costs too much (so I'll just drive a 70 mile round trip to drive you 3 miles down the road then). Agonising over the 50p cauliflower or the 55p cauliflower in the Whoops aisle.

It’s always been like this, I could tell you some hilarious childhood stories but I'm just ranting now. They can be very deeply unlikeable people!

Yeah, no you didn’t need to point that out. Pretty harsh on your mum calling you all bastards 😃 was he away a lot?

No wonder their loaded if you’ve all been bankrolling them for years!. I’d be better off if everyone paid my bills & provided free taxis.

It’ll be in the house. Under floorboards, the loft, gas fire etc. Whoever gets the house after them is in for a payday.

It really doesn't sound like they're managing your brother's money properly so that should be your main concern. I'd involve the school or social workers.
Also put in some boundaries - let them know how much it will cost in petrol to save them a taxi fare for instance.
You will have a mess to deal with when they die but you can't do much about it now; it may be worth getting them to sign LPAs in advance but it doesn't sound like they'll do it.
Lean on your siblings for support - they sound maddening!