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Retire early but poor or work longer for bigger pension?

108 replies

KindnessMyFriends · 07/06/2021 19:01

Which would you prioritise, more time to enjoy yourself or less time but more money? Work another year and retire very frugally, or work another 6 years and retire comfortably. Life is so short!

OP posts:
KindnessMyFriends · 07/06/2021 19:48

@HollowTalk

What about trying to work 4 days a week for a year (preferably two half days instead of one full day off) and then go down to 3 days a week a year or two later?
I might sound work out on fewer hours. It sounds like the perfect solution.
OP posts:
C152 · 07/06/2021 19:48

Only you know your attitude to risk, which is really what will drive your decision. Personally, I'm very risk averse, so would keep working for a while longer (or go part time, as someone else has suggested) so that I had a safety net of savings as well as a pension once I retired. Living very frugally suggests you may struggle to cover sudden unexpected expenses, like a new roof or boiler etc.

Also think about what you want to do in retirement, as well as every day costs - for example, I'd like to go on at least 1 overseas holiday a year, have meals out with friends, still be able to afford a take-away coffee whenever I want to etc. I don't drive, but I'd need to factor in the costs of public transport / taxis etc.

Notwithstanding the above, I don't want to work until the day I die. I think my mother worked far too long past retirement because she was worried about not having a big enough pension to survive. I don't think the extra 10 years and horrendous stress was worth the minimal increase in pension (relatively speaking, if you stretch it out over the years of retirement).

So, think about how you live now, how you want to live in the future (including any debts you may still be paying) and how much extra pension working longer will give you.

WombatChocolate · 07/06/2021 19:56

It all depends like most things.

If you’re in the lucky position of being in a defined benefit pension such as the public sector ones which have final salary or career average, it can be more worth retiring early than people realise and less ‘costly’ in terms of the cost of the contributions versus what you get out. In the final salary pensions which pay out at 60, taking the pension at about 57 results in only a small reduction, but of course you get the payout for another 3 years in full.

It also depends if you need to take your pension immediately when you stop work. Lots of people interested in retiring early or in the FIRE approach have multiple saving schemes and investments running so they can stop early and live in those before their pension pays out. They value time over money.

And it all depends by what you mean by living frugally. With the average UK pension pot standing at about £67k which will be lucky to give an income of £3-4K per year if drawn down, most people aren’t looking at an affluent retirement even if they keep working...,what they put into a pension just won’t allow it. So consider the size if the pension pot (if on a defined contribution pension) and what it can deliver and also what is really needed for decent or frugal or affluent retirement, long with how much state pension you’ll get at 66/7.

Many sites suggest a couple need about £16-18k per year (after tax) for a very basic retirement. They suggest around £24- 30k (after tax) for a moderate retirement and over £42k (after tax) for a more affluent retirement. So the question is how much do you want and will your pension pot deliver it even if you work a lot longer..llfor most people the answer is actually no and there is going to be loads of retirement poverty.

If I recall correctly, a pot of around £200k is needed to deliver drawdown of around £10-12k.

For me, the answer to the starting question is complex. I want to retire early but I’m not prepared to live in poverty or even on an excessively low income. I calculate that as a couple we are aiming for £2.5-£3k per month after tax (people need to remember that pensions are taxed the same as any other income once the personal allowance is reached) and so we need to generate that income or more. In the early stages if early retirement it will need to be through other investment vehicles, but by the time we are 67 we will be doing well with our 2 pensions fully paying out and 2 full state pensions giving an income of around £4-£5k. It is the earlier years which are more tricky as there is no state pension until 66/7 and I’m keen not to take our final salary pensions too early as they incur actuarial reduction. That’s why some ‘bridging’ investment is needed to fund some years without any or full pension.

But I want to stop in mid to late 50s. My job isn’t suited to people in their 60s.

Oh and the other thing that makes a vast difference is paying off your mortgage early. If you can pay off before retiring your funding requirements are immediately lower. If you can pay off substantially before retiring, you can save the mortgage money which will allow even earlier retirement. It’s all about long term planning and not just thinking about it as you hit 50 or 55. The people who genuinely stop early have been looking at it since they were 40 or even younger and unless they are big big earners, have been reducing debt and building up savings and investment and pensions to make it happen.

Good luck everyone.

BeyondMyWits · 07/06/2021 19:57

I'm 57 and a "part time pensioner". Life is good.

I worked in a high stress civil service post. Ended up with heart issues so I took early retirement at 55 and work very part time in a pharmacy, basically paid to chat to folks all day.

The pension pays the bills, the job pays for fun (and keeps me sane)...

WombatChocolate · 07/06/2021 19:59

Lots of people talk about knowing your ‘number’ - that is what you need for the lifestyle you want.

People can track their spending really carefully and see how little they can live on for perhaps 6 months to a year. Not only does this allow savings, it also shows you the minimum you need to retire and also what you would actually feel comfortable with. It’s a useful exercise and lots of people find they can live on significantly less than they think (especially if mortgage free - it is different if you’re still paying a mortgage or funding children still as you retire, or if you’re renting it’s an entirely different ball game and early retirement seems very unlikely unless you own property elsewhere which funds your renting)

MadMadMadamMim · 07/06/2021 20:02

I would work longer. I'm 56 and looking at another 11 years. There are many days I don't think I'll make that, and occasionally 'fantasise' about just doing another 5 perhaps. The difference in pension is considerable however.

The reality is that both my parents are still living and in their late 80s. I had three grandparents who lived well into their 90s.

I fear retiring at 60 to live another 40 poverty stricken years...

C0nstance · 07/06/2021 20:04

Is there some sort of calculator for working out what you need?

Plexie · 07/06/2021 20:04

There was a thread a few weeks ago about whether people 'flourish' in retirement. One of the posters expressed an excellent outlook which I'm going to steal:

I'm not going to wait until retirement to starting flourishing - I'm doing my flourishing now.

In other words I'm going to live my life well as I go through it, and not work myself into the ground for decades in the expectation that retirement will be a 10 year-long holiday. You just don't know how things are going to turn out.

Take opportunities to 'live' while you can, but balanced with the need to earn an income. Part time is a good idea. Also, is there any chance of redundancy? Now that the compulsory retirement age has been scrapped employers are more willing to make people in the 60+ age group redundant, whereas before it was often cheaper to let them carry on working until the compulsory retirement age as their wages were less than the redundancy pay.

applesandpears33 · 07/06/2021 20:09

It is interesting. I would rather retire early but that is because I have been considering the number of years of healthy retirement. By the time my parents were in their early 70s they had a number of health problems and weren't able to travel and enjoy themselves as much. I'd rather retire at 60 and try and enjoy some active years before health issues catch up with me.

Madcats · 07/06/2021 20:11

What is the £weekly impact on you retiring now versus working part time (I don't have the luxury of a final salary pension, but I assumed it was based on the years of service and hours you work(ed)?

You know how healthy you are, but also think about your relatives' longevity. Some families seem more prone to heart problems and cancer than others.

Viviennethebeautiful · 07/06/2021 20:21

The Local Govt Pension Scheme you are in is based on final salary. Going part time wouldn’t be a good idea as it would cut your pension. However you can apply for flexible retirement which is part pension, part salary. Or take pension and get another part time job with less pressure. The great thing about your pension scheme is that it will pay you a pension, which will go up slightly, every year for the rest of your life.
Put a call in to your pension scheme, they are incredibly helpful

Plexie · 07/06/2021 20:23

The Local Govt Pension Scheme you are in is based on final salary. Going part time wouldn’t be a good idea as it would cut your pension.

It's Care Average now, isn't it? But still wise to check.

rookiemere · 07/06/2021 20:26

Agreed @applesandpears33 - it's all very well saving loads to live until 87, but my DPs in their 80s struggle to spend much at all these days as small appetites, too frail to go on holiday and don't need any new clothes or anything for the house.

They are lucky and have reasonable health so I suppose the money will come in useful if they need to buy in help or pay for nursing homes, but I'm so glad they had a great time in their 60s and went on a couple of amazing holidays to visit relatives in NZ.

JamMakingWannaBe · 07/06/2021 20:32

As PP, as you are in the LGPS have a look at flexi retirement. You have access to your pension but can continue working - but need to reduce your hours by at least 20%.

Oxo01 · 07/06/2021 20:37

You can go flexi retirement at 55 with LA if they agree. ( I belive this may be changing to 57 in next few years)

You of course reduce your pension the earlier you do it.

I went to 3 days a week just past 55 but i had 29 years service at the time.

I had 3 options,
All lump sum , No pension
No lump sum ,bigger monthly pension.
Approx half half.
I took half half and do not regret it at all

I worked it out and double checked it all with payroll/ pension and online calculator that by working 3 days pw, plus the monthly pension I got exactly the same pay as I did for full time work.

I then started in the new pension scheme on my partime hours so will still have another amount of pension at age 66 .

This is not for everyone, as people have said you do lose a percentage of pension the earlier you do it, but it depends on years service you have and your salary.
I was knackered from the travelling stress of the job and spent my weekends trying to catch up with everything.

it suited me and I really don't regret it.
I have 4 days a week work free and can do anything or nothing as I please.

My colleague also done the same but she works 2 days one week t3 days the next week.
I have not touched my lump sum and still have the pension and wages as before to spend / save how I want as before.
Maybe look into it again
Good luck

Soontobe60 · 07/06/2021 20:41

@KindnessMyFriends

I have had a quote for retiring early next summer and pension would just cover expenses so savings would have to cover any emergencies or unexpected costs till state pension starts at 66yrs 9 months. I like the part time working thing though. That would be the best of both worlds. The things that give me pleasure are free or cheap- walking, library, garden, swimming.
I retired at 59, then worked part time (still am actually) and for 18 months my pension no salary was considerably higher than before I retired. I saved the excess, and am now living on my pension and earning a little until I too can access my State pension. Life’s too short to work til you drop.
WombatChocolate · 07/06/2021 20:50

LGPS will be career average if you started working for them post 2012, or final salary until 2022 (after the McCloud judgement) if you were there before 2012.

Final salary is generally better for most but both are excellent pensions com mared to defined contributions. Both will give you a certain income for the rest of your life which is index linked so inflation proofed.

These pension are based on full time equivalent salary. That means that if you work part time, you accrue years more slowly, but at the rate of full time pay. Final salary pensions usually use the pay of your last year or the best 3 in 10 years averaged and index linked. So going part time means you accrue less years but not at a lower salary.

With career average you add to your pension every year - in civil service pension which accrues at 1/43 if you earn £43k then £1k is added to your yearly pension each year. So if you never had a pay rise and thee was no inflation, after 20 years you'd have a pension of £20k. This is excellent and most people would need to put over £400k into a private pension to generate an income like this.

Carrying on working because you cannot afford to live without doing so is one thing. Carrying on working because you love what you do is also great. However, continuing working to perhaps 70 to boost your pension which is already solid, by a few extra £K seems a shame to me....those years of 60s and early 70s will be the ones when you can live the dream in retirement and all the money in the world won't let you live that same experience in your 80s if you've kept working.

This is why it's really importsntntonworknout what your 'number' is. What monthly amount after tax do you need to live in retirement? Start there and work backwards. Most people don't love their job enough to want to still be working in late 60s if they don't need to, or at least not full time. Many more could avoid finding they have to by looking at it earlier and doing some planning.

The Aviva website has some useful stuff to help you work out how much you might need for a single or a couple. Don't forget you'll be taxed on income above about £12.5k.

Check your state pension forecast by going online and creating an account. It's all part of your retirement fund picture and although you won't get it until 66/7 it can influence your retirement planning.

Mia85 · 07/06/2021 20:53

@C0nstance

Is there some sort of calculator for working out what you need?
It's all very personal to your circumstances but there are some good pieces of research that give you a guide to what people tend to spend in retirement. I'd look at: www.which.co.uk/money/pensions-and-retirement/starting-to-plan-your-retirement/how-much-will-you-need-to-retire-atu0z9k0lw3p

and

www.retirementlivingstandards.org.uk

Of course you can't predict the future, in 20 years time maybe (probably?) we'll all think it completely essetential to have some technology no-one's thought of yet. Then you need to factor in inflation, especially if you don't have an index linked defined benefit pension. Plus if you live a long time you're likely to have a period pf high spending, then lower as you age and possibly much higher again if you need care.

But probably the best thing you can do is work out what you think you'll need, looking at that research and your expenses. Then check your state and other pensions and work from there.

Mia85 · 07/06/2021 21:01

Oh and Meaningful Money has some great podcasts on all aspects of personal finance. There's a series on pension planning here meaningfulmoney.tv/category/podcast/season-17-retirement-planning/

Oversize · 07/06/2021 21:05

Some fantastic advice and links thanks, so I'm placemarking.

disneydreaming · 07/06/2021 21:20

I would check if your employer has a flexi retirement policy where you can gradually cut back on hours but still build up your pension before retiring fully.
I know my employer does and a lot of my work colleagues have done just that.

tukanada · 07/06/2021 21:42

Retirement planning is really important but complicated. I thought I'd got it sussed but am still trying to work out the ramifications of the McCloud judgement. I think it will be beneficial for me as more of my contributions can count towards the legacy scheme which has a standard retirement age if 60, rather than 67 under the current scheme.

blue1000 · 07/06/2021 21:57

Only you can work out the finances and know how much you like/need work. I'm 60 this summer and am retiring, taking my LGPS pension early. I know it's the right thing for me and know I can live on my income. Good luck with making the decision

KeyboardWorriers · 07/06/2021 22:11

I think moving part time is a great compromise and allows people to gradually adjust to retirement rather than having a "cliff edge" type change.

Plexie · 08/06/2021 09:40

Another thing to check: get a forecast of your state pension. Under the latest rules you won't build up full entitlement for any years you were contributing to a pension that had contracted out of SERPS - which I think was common for workplace pensions before the 2000s. Don't just assume that you will receive the full state pension.