Should I call the police over this threat?

[Nightynight]

We live in a terrace house, and next door is a childless couple. The walls are paper thin, and they seem to expect never to hear any noise from the children.

When we moved in, they told us that they liked to sleep in at weekends, and that they had had noise problems with the previous tenant, who was a mum with 1 dd.

The rules of the housing development are, semi-quiet after 8pm, and total quiet 10 pm - 7 am. (it is in Germany)
Well, they soon started banging on our wall. They bang at any time, eg 7.30 in the evening. The children are sometimes noisy, but I tone the noise down in the evenings. The neighbours will bang even when we aren't being particularly noisy, eg if we are all sitting in the sitting room, and talking in normal voices (not shouting, and not talking all at once).

Also, they bang if we use the bathroom in the middle of the night, sometimes waking me up with their banging if one of the children is using the bathroom.
They also banged when dd (4) was sick in the night, and when she could not sleep and was crying once.

2 nights ago, it was 9pm and I had just told my chidlren to go upstairs (lights out at 9pm). The neighbour knocked on the wall, with no particular provocation. I snapped, and knocked back. Neighbour knocked again, and so did I.

Next thing, I heard the doorbell ringing, and this woman had come round to shout at me. She launched straight into insults eg "you are a psycho, I will call the police etc"
I invited her to call the police.
She carried on, saying that I am mad, stupid, have problems, and that the children should be with their father (we are divorced).
I asked her if she was aware that the father had come to our house and broken the windows and door.
She replied "Yes, and why did he do that?" in a sceptical tone of voice that implied that she thought he was justified, because I am such a horrible person.
She repeated several times, that I am a terrible mother, and that the children should be with their father. (For the record, he hit me and the children, and took the children out of school, and spent all the money that I was earning - he doesn't work - and recently, he smashed my car.) I didn't even know that this woman knew my ex, but apparently she met him when he was staying here last year, and thought he was wonderful by the sound of it.

Anyway, she then said that she could make problems for me, and that I should be very afraid.
I said, Go ahead then, make the problems.
She said Oh my god, it is worse than I thought. You are crazy. You are stupid. You should be very afraid. You wait and see what I will do, you had better be scared."

She didn't specify what she is planning to do, but I feel it is unacceptable to go telling the neighbour that they should be scared.

She is probably planning to call social services and tell them I am a psycho, though she didn't make this specific threat.

If I go to the police, basically they won't want to know, and I will be faced with more scepticism. I feel I have spent so much time in police stations recently, I seem to be attracting threats and violence and the police may just think Oh no, its her again.

would you go to the police?

Oh my god! What a loon!
I would def go to the police, good to get this on record

thank you

I am trying to make sense of it. I wondered if she had been smoking hash or something. But I am the foreigner, single mother of 4, and she is the German citizen, who drives a posh car and is clearly well off.
People won't expect someone like her to behave like a loon, but many are ready to beleive the worst of me.

Oh no it sounds so awful. I would tell the police so they know she is threatening you. Why is she so sgressive?

Threats, harassment, unreasonable behaviour - are you absolutely sure the previous tenant did not report her for all of this NN?
I absolutely hear what you say regarding your recent contact with the German police, but she sounds unhinged and I don't think you should let this lie
Oh God I hope you get out of there soon

I don't know. In my experience, people here are very aggressive (bayern, not the rest of germany), but there are also very strong rules about not being aggressive in public.

I get the impression that the noise thing has driven her to distraction, but the walls really are paper thin, and the floor echoes like mad, even with judo mats and a carpet laid on it. If you put your ear near the wall, you can hear everything that is said next door.
In the end, I feel that if they didn't want to hear any noise, they shouldn't have bought a terrace house.

ooh, good thought marina. Someone else told me that nobody had stayed in our house for very long. Maybe they've all had neighbour problems.

OMG, you poor thing. I know all about the terror these neighbours can cause and I know what you mean about people being aggressive in the south of Germany. I had to cope with the Schwaben, they are pretty much like their Bavarian neighbours though.
Can you not put a complaint in with the housing development people (are you renting?)
I know these sort of rows are so common down there so probably it won't get you or her anywhere. Police don't usually get involved either - saddly in most cases I've heard of (especially with foreigners) the only thing you can do is move house. I really feel for you though, and for your dc.

Well the police might have a dossier on her then
I hate neighbour noise too, we once lived under (in every sense of the word) shrieking daytime sex maniacs who also slammed doors at all hours, threw china etc
It poisoned our lives tbh. But we never threatened them, argued with them etc because up to a point we could hear all this because of the building's shoddy construction
I think she is picking on you because you are
not a Local Person
a single parent
a tenant

and she is
a bully
who has lost all sense of reason

I know you have heaps to be going on with NN but in a moment of calm and resilience go down there and report her.
Can I ask, you say "they". Presumably this model of German Domestic Rectitude has a husband, what's he like? As mad, or sheepish?

police wont do owt about the noise problem, I know. Especially as we don't make noise all night. It is the threats that I should be scared, that I want to report.

She has a partner. He drives a huge 4 wheel drive, that belongs to his company, and is just as aggressive as her (once, he slammed the wall with all his might, at midnight, when I had the temerity to use the bathroom, and a bottle fell from a shelf onto the washing machine below, by mistake).

Well, I have been to the police station. They said that it doesn't count as a threat if the person doesn't specify what they are going to do.
They are going to go round and speak to the neighbour though. I am not too happy about that, because the neighbour was so aggressive, and really seemed to hate me, and was saying things like "you make noise all night" and "you are a bad mother" if she spouts all this stuff to the police, I may find myself having to defend myself against all these accusations. Once said, they are likely to go to the jugendamt (social services), even if they are subsequently proved false.

On the other hand, the neighbours may just crumple at a word from the police.

Nightynight, you know there might be someone at the Rathaus who could help you. When I was in South Germany I had some trouble from a nasty, unfriendly Beamte and I went to the Frauenbeauftragte at the Rathaus, she really helped sort it out by sending letters and phoning and in the end made him apologize. Just a thought as these Frauenbeauftragte are very helpfull to mums alone (I had just had ds and was not married to dh)and one of their main jobs is to help with discrimination against single mums. Try just emailing them the story of what has happened and they might come up with some help.

if she does cause further poblems - i am thinking 10 min bursts of iron maiden speaker against the wall.

and if she does threaten you again - tell her that she has no idea who you are or who you know so she better shut her fucking mouth - becuase you know people.

i would let the police know that you have been threatened, just for the records. then i would challenge her outright and show her you are not afraid ,even if you are. she is a bully, in my experience they usually back off if they think they've met their match.

lol custy iron maiden is not in my music collection. Abba might do the trick though - theyd be begging for mercy.

I think you are both right about looking tough. I can talk tough, but they are both so materialistic they would probably only shut up if I appeared in a humungous Mercedes 4 wheel drive or something like that.
thank you for the tip about the Frauenbeauftragte admylin - I will look into that.

Reading this with nothing to add, but out of curiousity - what is 'Frauenbeauftragte at the Rathaus'?

Frauenbeauftragte is something like a women's rep in local government. Rathaus = town hall.

Oh dear NN Anything we can do?

These noise disputes are really really common. FWIW, if this went to (civil) court she wouldn't have a leg to stand on. There are tons of judgements saying that reasonable/normal noise from children is zumutbar. The threats make it very nasty, I know. Any way of contacting previous tenant?

must go (ds1's bedtime , email later

Thanks for explanation berolina.

I'd figure out a way to tape record her making threats in future. Do you have a little dictaphone that you could slip into a pocket or hold unobtrusively when you next answer the door? By the way, have no idea about legalities of recording someone without their knowledge......

I am already recording ex h on the telephone, as he describes how he is going to bash my head in. I think the recorder can be used for normal conversations as well.
Actually, that is a v good idea. If she comes round again, I'll hold my phone out and say "I am recording this conversation" that should put a check on her aggression. She is middle class aggressive, so basically scared of courts etc.

I have heard loads of neighbour battle stories, so am pretty much aware that they can't do anything, especially as they are complaining about things like us getting up at 7 am on Sunday. In the rules, this is allowed.

ds2 has got an infected tick bite and cant sit down, and ds1 has got a giant cut on his knee. The school put a plaster on it WITHOUT WASHING IT FIRST and I didnt realise until bedtime. And I didnt even get round to other things like sending evidence to the french police.

sorry if I repeat what's been said, not time atm to reach the replies

I would report it to the police AND the housig association. Could you request re-housing on the baiss that you feel thatyour children are being endangered?

thank you MrsBigD, I respect your local knowledge!

yup I'm German and they're succers for paper trail ;)

lol I know! and talking everything out at great length.
I am a little bit like this myself - I blame my German ancestors

I think she is very unreqasonable and she is threateneing yours anf your childrens safety.
Is there any way of tracing the last tenant-could you maybe find out if she had any similar problems ?

I would print off this whole mumsnet thing and give it to the police-you explain it beautifully and if they read this first and then ask them to come to you and take a statement.
A police car outside your house will give her something to think about.

good luck