How to make this will 'fair'?

[Hel81]

I am trying to work out what a ‘fair’ will would be in this situation and would really appreciate any thoughts.

The situation is generally pretty straightforward. The parents are both 70 and in good health. They want to rewrite their wills as the current version is old and pre-grandchildren. They have two adult children (age 39 and 41) each of whom is married/long term partner and has each has two children. No-one has disabilities or long-term health conditions. Both DCs and their partners work, both own their own home with mortgage.

The bit I’d appreciate thoughts on is this. About 18 months ago the parents gave DC2 and partner a large cash gift (100K+) to help them to move to a much nicer house. DC1 already had a house similar to DC2s new house. The parents told DC1 that they’d given the gift to DC2 and that they should see it as DC2 getting an advance inheritance. When the parents died they wanted to the DCs to remember the gift and sort it out so things were fair. Now that the will is being re-written they can think about putting it into the will rather than leaving it for the DCs to sort out when they die. So the question I’d appreciate thoughts on is how the will should be written to make this ‘fair’. Hopefully the parents will live many years to come so inflation etc may mean that the value of £100K looks very different by that point.

It’s obviously an awkward thing to discuss in the family but equally if people feel it’s not been done fairly it can cause real damage to relationships so I’d appreciate objective views thanks.

This is a very confusing post for me as I keep wondering if I wrote it and now have amnesia! Right down to the age and sex of both children and the sum given.

Dh and I have always been fiercely independent and rejected offers of money from parents whilst db has always been more “practical” and would take what was offered. For example - when we all go on holiday as a group - my parents pay for my brother, his partner and their child but we have always insisted on paying for ourselves. To make it more complex - parents don’t want db to know we pay for ourselves so complex subterfuge goes on to hide it. I’ve always been fine with that - almost found it funny - not least as I know db knows me and dh pay as he knows me well enough to guess and asked early on. But parents and brother still all pretend he doesn’t know.

Anyway - as a result of this I’ve been surprised how much the £100k bothers me. Can’t really explain why. But it does. Complex sibling rivalry I guess.

My parents have said they have altered the will to allow for it but I don’t know if they have got round to it yet. I suspect if they have then it is just £100k with no inflation impact. This bothers me but not enough to turn it into a “thing”. So that’s that really.

This sort of thing is really common. There is special wording their solicitor can put into the will to make sure the earlier gift of 100k is taken into account. It’s called a hotchpotch clause.

£100k is a huge amount. Some good advice about solicitors, will conditions etc. I'd just be worried that as you've been treated so differently so far, the talk of making things equal is just that - talk.

Agree with earlier poster - £50k to each would be completely fair, more than enough to significantly help with a new house and give you both a boost at a young enough age to make a real difference to family finances when mortgage repayments are still required.

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I'm kind of DC1 in this situation although there are more than two children and various other sums involved. I recognise the feeling of having spent my 20s working hard and saving while others spent and travelled though. I definitely understand the hurt and the feeling that it's impossible for it to ever be made fair.

This is an equality v. equity question. I'd have no problem treating my children differently when it came to financial gifts or inheritance if I felt it could ensure both of them a decent standard of life.

no problem treating my children differently when it came to financial gifts or inheritance if I felt it could ensure both of them a decent standard of life.

When it is a case of levelling the playing field, where there are differing abilities I can absolutely see the fairness here.

Even, if one child works hard in a not well remunerated sector such as nursing, again I could understand a parent wanting to adjust things.

When the less secure child has just 'had fun but nothing to show for it' I begin to see that it's hardly fair for the other sibling to be rewarded for being 'sensible' with money by being given less from their parents.

Tricky, isn't it. The sibling to gets more will always have an narrative that you somehow were the victim in all this ...

This is an equality v. equity question. The thing is that equity can look very different to different family member and at different times. First you have the problem that Finallyhere mentions that if they have the same starting point in life you effectively penalise one child for being sensible and hardworking. Then you have the problem that what looks like equity at one snapshot may look very unfair as life goes on and redundancy/illness/divorce etc take their toll. In our case covid hit a few months after the gift and for a while there was a serious risk of redundancy for both me and DH. At the same time we had a very serious health scare. We could very easily have been in a place of having lost both incomes and facing a terminal illness. Fortunately it looks as if the redundancy risks are receeding and so far the medical tests have been good but if it had (does) happen suddenly equity looks very different and I think my parents would have regretted giving up all their ability to help us in order to get my brother exactly the home he wanted. I think the only way in which substantial difference in treatment works is if everyone is agreed in advance that the 'favoured' child is in a situation of real need e.g. unable to work through serious health problems etc.

Anyway thanks very much for the advice, I will look up hotchpotch clauses. I'm going over on Sunday so we'll see then...

The ‘fair does not always mean equal’ is always brought up in these threads and it really annoys me.

In our case it was the favoured child who was more able to fend for themselves as they achieved well academically without having to put in too much effort. DH is 8 years younger and his schooling was severally disrupted when his parents moved abroad. He had to work really hard and take the long road to achieve his academic dreams.

I am always reminded about Chris Evans (DJ) mother who split her will equally between her 3 children, despite one being a multi millionaire.

We have two children with a 7 year gap. There is no way we would financially help one without ensuring we can help the other to a similar degree.

My DH has really struggled with this since his fathers death and deeply regrets not addressing this issue whilst he was alive. He has so many unanswered questions and has been left feeling really confused, unloved and unworthy.

Good luck on Sunday. Although these conversations are never easy, I think you are better taking this opportunity to have your say and make your feelings known whilst you have the chance to do so.

How did it go @Hel81 ? As I said, I remembered Your situation from your earlier thread and (as I am in a similar line of work), felt for you.

People/parents can wrongly assume your feelings of upset are coming from greed or a refusal to see that ‘it’s still their money to spend!’ But it’s not that at all. It’s so many things - the golden child’s lack of planning being rewarded, and yours effectively ‘punishing’ you, parents using money to give them (or the grandchild) the same house/standards that your family has - failing to see that you and your DH worked v hard to achieve that standard - it’s not just there as a benchmark! And ultimately, about your position in the family.

I also understand the parent’s side. They see one child disadvantaged and they have a means (money) to make it better. They step in as they always have, just never with such huge amounts of money that means they can’t even it up now. In their own heads they will have adjusted for this and they will “know” they’ll make it right (as they couldn’t live with themselves otherwise) but when there is so long between ‘making good’ something is bound to go wrong and they won’t be able too.

I hope you find the words In your discussion. I am still outraged on your behalf.

Thanks very much for asking FollowYourOwnNorthStar. It did clear a lot of things up and I think it will reset my relationship with my parents (not so sure about my brother!)

They brought up the gift straightaway and they'd obviously been worrying about it. It seems that the 100K came from their share of my grandparents' bungalow plus a bond that they had maturing around the same time. They were thinking of splitting it 50:50 between us. Then my brother told them he'd put his flat on the market and they were looking at houses, so my parents told him about this money and that he could increase his budget by 50K. The next conversation they had with him they'd found the perfect house, just a couple of streets away from a great primary school/preschool that had places for my nephews but the snag was that it was out of their budget. They might have been able to afford it if they both went full time (they both do 3 days) but they weren't sure they could and in any case they didn't want to change the current set up BUT of course if they had the whole £100K the problem was solved. My parents felt under a lot of pressure because the decision was 'urgent' because the school couldn't guarantee the places so they wanted to move quickly for the new school year, the owners wanted to sell ASAP to emigrate plus FTBs wanted my brother's flat and could move straight away. So my parents felt it was a good opportunity for my nephews and handed over the whole lot (without taking any legal advice). They didn't directly say so but in the cold light of day they've obviously felt more uncomfortable with this and wished they'd discussed it with me before handing the cash over. They've been talking through issues such as deprivation of assets and what happens if my brother or I predecease them etc and thinking that it would have been more sensible to discuss all of this first but it's too late now.

Anyway I can completely see how they felt bounced into this and am pretty cross with my brother for putting them in this position. They're going to do something that sounds like the 'hotchpotch clause' mentioned above in the will and talk to the solicitor about the wording for inflation so that's probably the best now.

I can completely see how they felt bounced into this and am pretty cross with my brother for putting them in this position.

Wow. I’d be more than “pretty cross”.

the snag was that it was out of their budget. They might have been able to afford it if they both went full time (they both do 3 days) but they weren't sure they could and in any case they didn't want to change the current set up BUT of course if they had the whole £100K the problem was solved.

Your brother and his wife sound grabby as fuck.

Hindsight is a wonderful thing - I’m so sorry your parents didn’t feel they could discuss all this before they made the “gift”. But I’m pleased you feel reassured and that your relationship with your parents is on a better footing.

I’d never want to accept money from my parents if it meant my siblings couldn’t be treated equally too. Your brother obviously has no such scruples.

Oh I'm so glad that you have had that conversation and am glad that you can at least see how your parents got to this situation.

It certainly doesn't show your brother in any good light.

It can only be "fair" if the first £100k (adjusted) goes to DC1 and the residual is then divided how the parents wish, between children and grandchildren.
But then it wasn't particularly fair to bring dc2 up to dc1's standard of living with a handout while dc1 had to do it by their own hard work.
I'd never differentiate like that. Presumably they (you) had the same initial starting point (wrt education, etc)?

I think its irrelevant that both have a similar house. The parents have favoured one child over another. By a great deal of money. This child will benefit massively more over time through the increase in value of the house they’ve helped pay for.

Just out of interest, my grandmother was in a home for 18 years - at £1000k a week, for 1 year that would be £52K, 10 years over half a million. There is absolutely NO guarantee that the amount of money we have in savings and equity will pay for our care needs - we just cannot predict what they will be.

The parents should do the morally right thing and give their other child an equivalent amount now then the will is split equally for whatever is left when the last parent dies.

OP, I’m so glad you talked to your parents and now understand what went on. The fact they unprompted acknowledged what went on and how they can address it is what is important. Your relationship with them is more important than the money.

They are now thinking through the long term and getting the right advice which should avoid a repeat. Your brother has shown his true colours and so both you and your parents will be on alert if he tries something similar.

Wow, I've just read your update.

Your brother sounds like a right chancer, but honestly, I wouldn't have been swerved from dividing the money between my two children due to pressure from one of them so no particular sympathy to your parents either 🤷🏻‍♀️

It was a very poor decision to gift such a large amount of money to one child to get a bigger house which doesn't seem to have been essential, while not being able to do the same for the other child within their lifetime. Yes, you may get it as an inheritance, but it could also all be spent on their care home fees and you'll never see it.

My parents helped myself and my sister pay for our wedding and with our first house deposits, which probably worked out pretty equal. I now still live in my first house with my now DH and our kids and it's really cramped and we would have loved to have been able to move a few years ago but we've had to save like most families do. I would never have expected my parents to help us buy a bigger house, seems like an odd decision for your parents to make, when they weren't planning on giving anything similar to you.

It would have been much more sensible for them to give you both an early inheritance of £50k for you to do what you wanted with.

Anyway, it's done now. Try not to let it ruin your relationship with your family. It was a bad decision, but hopefully not one done purposefully. I would definitely find out their intentions with regards to the will as you don't want to end up not knowing what they had planned and not being able to ask them.

@Soontobe60

I think its irrelevant that both have a similar house. The parents have favoured one child over another. By a great deal of money. This child will benefit massively more over time through the increase in value of the house they’ve helped pay for.

Just out of interest, my grandmother was in a home for 18 years - at £1000k a week, for 1 year that would be £52K, 10 years over half a million. There is absolutely NO guarantee that the amount of money we have in savings and equity will pay for our care needs - we just cannot predict what they will be.

The parents should do the morally right thing and give their other child an equivalent amount now then the will is split equally for whatever is left when the last parent dies.

Yes this has happened in recent years to roughly half of my circle of close friends. They have ended up with no inheritance as it all went on care costs. People should never rely on it. My dad has a house worth roughly 250k but I imagine he will live to a good age and likely need care, so I never will bank on any inheritance.

Presumably they (you) had the same initial starting point (wrt education, etc)? Yes we're both close in age, went to same schools etc. But we're quite different people. I spent my 20s doing professional training and working whilst he was very involved in anti-capitalist groups (ironically wanted 100% inheritance tax!!) and living comunally/off grid etc. He'd still like to see himself like that but in reality has become middle aged with sensible job and mortgage! Because of that background I can completely see why my parents are relieved to have their grandchildren in a nice secure home and normal school. It does feel very much as if he has had cake and eaten it though.

It does feel very much as if he has had cake and eaten it though.
It most certainly does. Taking a different path is perfectly fine, but whinging that it got you to a different place is childish nonsense which should never have been indulged.
Still, you are where you are. Hopefully your parents will put things right while they can.

So sorry to read this Op - your brother sounds like a real user but shame on your parents for letting him bully them into handing over all of the £100k.

Hope the will gets written in such a way as to ensure you get your fair share when the time comes.

@Hel81 I’m so pleased the conversation went well. It sounds like letting some water pass under the bridge was a really good thing, and With goodwill on both sides, you’ve been able to understand how each other feels, and also make a plan that you both can live with (and importantly, that you feel equally loved and valued by).

I hope there is something there to cover you, in the event the money is all taken in carer’s home fees? Or if someone dies and a parent remarries, can they change the will so your gift is again removed?

I recall some details of your brother in the other thread - the less working days/week and that he had a good pension etc. I suspect he is the type that will always be savings/cash poor. So at other financial-crunch points In his life, I imagine he will now look for a handout. In his mind, this money is his and was always his now, whereas the money still coming to you in the will, will be “future” money, in his mind, and I bet that somehow, whether by further cash advances, or pressure to change the will later, he will try and get some of it.

I would suggest a few things, and choose the one/s you think would work in your situation:

1. Your parents telling him about the will clause, making it clear this is to make up for the £100k he got early, plus interest, so it isn’t a surprise.

2. You speaking to your parents about their need to keep the remaining capital they have, and what to do if approached by him again with an ‘emergency’, eg: buy time to consider it, speak to you, or to a peer/sibling or to a solicitor/accountant who can give a more independent outside viewpoint.

3. if care home fees become an issue, that your brother not be in a position to choose deliberately high fees to devalue your inheritance. I am not suggesting of providing your parents with sub-standard care, but I have seen cases where a sibling will insist on certain Unnecessary care or treatment (or legal proceedings) to run down the value of the estate to the detriment of other siblings.
   .

Why not have the property valued then work out the percentage of the property eg if its 500k the first 20% goes to dc1 then the 80% is split 40 each or however they wish to do it including grand children. This covers inflation. Your never going to get it exact as they will pay IHT but dc2 did not as it was not inheritance so to speak

Glad you had a good conversation with your parents and understand the circumstances of the £100k more now. Your brother has a lot of front, doesn't he!

So your parents revealed they had £100k, and your brother would get half. However, suddenly, the only sum that would solve his problem was the whole lot?
What an entitled pig.
I'd be very much more than cross too.