Carers benefits (and small mention of national insurance!)

[MummytoCSJH]

Hi, I'm wondering if anyone can give me some advice on carers benefits. I'm currently a full time student and I also care for my son who has ADHD, he gets DLA at mid rate care and low rate mobility, we also get the severely disabled child element of universal credit along with our other entitlements like my standard allowance and housing. I currently get the carers element of universal credit but not carers allowance as I am not entitled to it due to being a full time student. I made universal credit aware multiple times that I don't think I am entitled to the carers element due to not being entitled to carers allowance and them having the same rules, my student finance is taken into account so they are definitely fully aware of this, but they pushed back that I am entitled and I have proof of that on calls and my journal so I'm hoping they don't ask me to pay it back (and will try to appeal it if they do I suppose but I won't have been getting it for that long once I graduate so if I absolutely have to pay it back then I can). What I'm trying to get my head around is if (when I finish my degree in May so from June payments onwards) I should claim carers allowance? I can't work out whether we will be better off? It seems like we would be but then says it will be taken off my universal credit £1 for £1, my student income works like this so I understand it but what's the point in that case then as you're not getting any extra if you already get the carers element, which I will continue to get? The consultant has advised my son is going to be finally able to start some adhd medication in a few months time so my plan is to take some time off work and study after that to keep an eye on him and work out what's best for him whilst I find something that will fit in around his school provision, as I've pretty much worked and/or studied since he was born and he is now at an age where he really needs my support. I can't quite get my head around the different types of carers benefit you can claim even after reading all of the different sites! I am single and will have no other forms of income once I have finished my degree, once I go back to work I'm aware of the earnings cap for CA and it will definitely be over this, so I understand that at that point if I am getting UC at all the carers element will still be included in my entitlements and my wages taken off, either way I can't see any benefit to claiming carers allowance essentially? Does anyone have any advice or know anything else I need to consider?

As a side note whilst I'm on this board, does anyone know if national insurance contributions should still be full if you claimed child benefit before YOU were 18 as the 2 years before that are empty but I was claiming child benefit and income support from when I had my son at 16 whilst I was at sixth form and working, not sure I have any proof of it now though!

Thank you in advance

I've no idea about the Ni contributions prior to aged 18.
if you claimed carers allowance alongside Uc then it is deducted from Uc at an averaged rate of around £291 per month. So you get the £67.25 paid weekly or however you want it paying then it is deducted again as it is an overlapping benefit and counted as such, they won't pay it twice. Claiming carers allowance gives you class 1 NI contributions which is better than class 3 that you are credited with by claiming child benefit.

I'm also not sure whether you have been correctly advised about claiming the carers element whilst a student. The best people to speak to would be your University student welfare department as Uc for students is quite a specialized area and they will be the absolute experts on this and be able to advise accurately.

Also if you were working at 16 then as long as you were working enough hours to pay NI, you would have been credited with NI contributions?

It is also very easy to set up a government gateway account to check whether you have full years of NI contributions. i checked mine a couple of months ago and it will tell you for each year whether the years are fully up to date. I think you can do it by the Gov.UK site.

Carers Element of UC is just based on your declaration that you provide care for a person in receipt of DLA MRC / HRC or PIP Daily Living (Standard or Enhanced) for 35 hours per week on average or more. No more to it than that.

(Other disability benefits like Attendance Allowance etc are also applicable)

@babyroobs, yes government gateway is how I've checked this and there are missing years from 2013/14, 2014/15 and 2014/16. I had my son and first claimed child benefit May 2014, turned 16 Jan 2016. I was at sixth from 2014-2016 then worked straight away for a year and a bit and then went to uni. My working time contributions are correct, it's the years previous to working that I am confused about as I was definitely claiming child benefit and income support whilst I was at sixth form so they should still have included class 3 credits I think.

My university money and welfare teams both have no idea about anything like this, they didn't know a single thing about claiming benefits as a student when I started either as they rarely have people in my position, parents who study usually have a partner and aren't claiming apparently. I have struggled a lot throughout my 3 years there with them and universal credit and now realised if I want to find anything out I need to find it myself from elsewhere and tell them. There have actually been instances where I've had to be the one to advise them on how they should be calculating certain student incomes like grants and disregarding parts of my loan for example. It's been a bit of a joke really! haven't been getting it for that long so if they absolutely do require me to pay it back it will only be from Sept20-May21 so I could pay it back, but I will fight them all the way as I was so clear so many times that I shouldn't be getting it but they escalated the query and said I definitely am entitled, so god knows! If that is the case re declaring it @8dayweek then I guess I am entitled which is a weight off my shoulders.

Thank you both for responding!

See the Note under F6013

assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/864916/admf6.pdf

My guess about NI would be that whilst under 18 and still in FTE yourself (with a parent claiming ChB for you) that it would be "covered" by virtue of that...? I'm going to have a dig

Turned d16 jan 2014 that should say!

@8dayweek hi, yes it is possible to do that (for example my parent could have claimed CB for both me and my son) but my parent was not claiming CB for me as I was unable to claim income support and child benefit if they were. I lived independently from a few months after my son was born too.

Thank you I have read that link before, I've just double checked and one of the conditions is that claimant is not in full time education (point 5 under the section you mentioned) which is why it's so confusing as I have pointed this out to them and they have still said it's fine you are entitled and awarded it. I am in full time education, it's a 3 year BSc Hons. Thank god I graduate soon, I couldn't keep up with this for much longer!

@MummytoCSJH Sorry, the penny dropped as I started to search that it wouldn't follow suit that your parent was claiming ChB etc for you if you were getting IS etc in your own right.

Hmmm everything I can find suggests it's credited automatically for ChB recipients. There is a helpline though...

www.gov.uk/national-insurance-credits

I'll do some more digging...

The "Note" is the important bit...

F6013 The conditionsfor entitle mentto C A arethat

1. the clai mantis engagedin caringfor a severely disabled personfor any day (see D M G 60033- 60042). A severely disabled personis a personto who m one ofthe benefitslistedin D M G 60033is payable and
2. the clai mantisregularly and substantially engagedin caringforthat person for atleast 35 hours a week(see D M G 60035- 60042)and
3. the clai mantis not gainfully e mployed(see D M G 60051- 60052)- but seethe Note belo wforthe U C carer ele ment and
4. the clai mantis aged 16 or over(see D M G 60058)and
5. the clai mantis notin FTE(see D M G 60068- 60081)and
6. the clai mantsatisfies prescribed conditions ofresidence or presencein GB ( s e e D M G C h a pt er 0 7 P art 2) a n d
7. no one elseis already entitledto C A forthat severely disabled person.

Note: The conditionin3. does not needto be satisfiedfor a clai mantto qualifyfor the U C carer ele ment. A U C clai mant willqualifyforthe carer ele mentifthe conditionsin 1. and2. and4. to7. are satisfied. U C D Mstherefore do not needto considerthe a mount ofthe clai mant’s earnings when considering entitle menttothe carer ele ment(but see F6014). Earnedinco mefro m caring

Don't worry and thank you for that link re the helpline. I am planning to contact them and child benefit to see if they can confirm the original date I began claiming as I don't have my old letters just an up to date one, on my government gateway NI page it just says to write to them with evidence and that helpline is not listed. I suppose it's not a massive deal losing 2 years, I'm not sure I can improve my forecast further anyway? I would just prefer it to be correct and was surprised when I saw I was missing years when I know I was definitely getting CB and IS.

Sorry, not sure why that copied so weird... but essentially - you're over 16, the cared for person gets a qualifying benefit, you provide care for 35hrs per week or more and nobody else is already claiming CA for caring for the disabled person.

Bingo. Four ticks, no need to look any deeper.

Ah perfect, thank you so much for clearing that up. I have been so stressed about paying almost £1000 back even though I'd told them I shouldnt be getting it!

Honestly, Carers Allowance / Carers Element is usually left well alone by DWP.

There's generally no requirement to "prove" and the declaration of substantial caring should be accepted at face value. I've realised that the quote says 4 TO 7 but I think that's a typo, to determine eligibility for Carers Element on UC it's essentially those 4 tick boxes I listed above.

Once your course is finished I would always recommend Carers Allowance for the increased NI protection. But I would definitely enquire about the gaps (my second guess as to why they're there is because maybe they get back filled - so once your child hits 12 they then stop paying the NI credit with the ChB and "reconcile" your NI account making those 12 years covered).

Thank you, yes the NI protection seems to be the main benefit for claiming CA so if I will not lose the CE because of it (as mentioned it will be my only income so don't think it will affect my UC claim other than the £1 for £1 basis?) I will definitely claim it. I will contact the helpline tomorrow and see if they can shed any light on it - valid point re back filling, just seems odd that they have filled my most recent years, though this could be from my UC, so maybe they don't have my CB info at all! I haven't worked now since the beginning of my second year at uni, I had a partner until that point so was a lot easier for childcare reasons but once we split I had to give up my job due to sons SN and claim UC. If I find out what's going on I will let you know!

Maybe they don't pay the NI from 16 because most young people are meant to be in education or training until 18, so it would hardly be fair really if you can get NI contributions from aged 16 in these circumstances. Just a thought.
Carers element of Uc would not stop because you claimed carers allowance. The benefits of claiming CA alongside Uc is really just the better class of NI contributions, being paid it weekly which may help budgeting and it will mean you have no work commitments on Uc. If you do want to start working on Uc then there is no earnings threshold with Uc carers element like there is with carers allowance where you can only earn £128 a week otherwise carers allowance would stop.

Very possible, I will query this. I can't find anything relating to having to be over 18 in the gov docs I've read, the Which.co.uk page on the NI credits says 'parents (aged over 16) who receive child benefit eg... will receive the class 3 credits', but I cannot find any other reference to age or having to be 16 vs 18 when referring to CB at all. I would understand if that is the reason as I know they stopped providing them from 16-18 for being in FTE. I knew nothing really about pensions at 16, I think it should be taught as if it can improve the forecast it could promote more young people to get a part time job, barely anyone I knew had one alongside sixth form. I got a performance based bursary from my sixth form and without that I think I still would have struggled even with the income support so god knows how they managed. I obviously had a lot extra to pay out though especially once I'd moved out myself. I don't know if I can even improve the forecast if I pay the extra now or it was wrong and gets updated, it says I can't but I'm not sure if this just means if I carry on as I am with the previously years as they stand today.

Thank you both again, I think on the basis of the info here I will definitely claim CA whilst I am not actively searching for work, once we sort out DS meds and his childcare is more reliable again I will figure out what I am going to do next and probably stop claiming. The plan is absolutely not to be his long term carer but the docs are hopeful medication will help him sooner rather than later, it's been delayed a lot due to covid and his age. I just feel like I've either been working or studying his entire life which is great of course and I want him to have that role model, as so many people think differently of young parents, but he needs my support at the moment - I don't want to get a few years down the line and realise I can't get back into work though!

Just had a quick dou le check and forecast is for full amount 175.20 so not sure if there is even any point fixing it (if it is wrong!) I still have plenty of time to contribute, only 23

So I have spoken to NI today (rang but was on hold for ages yesterday!), they have all the correct dates re me claiming CB and my other circs like IS, work and UC and said I definitely should have those credits. They have sent it across to their benefit liaison to have a look and hopefully amend them, it could take up to 8 weeks so just to keep checking the Gov gateway. They said it's probably just a fluke that the system hasn't picked it up for those years.