FIRE starter

[Mia85]

This is a thread for discussing FIRE (Financial Independence Retire Early) and supporting each other in planning for the future.

For anyone new to FIRE, the idea is that you live significantly below your income and invest the surplus, usually in low cost funds. The aim is to amass enough that you can live off the returns. At that point you are finanically independent and you are free to spend your time as you wish (which might include working if you want to do that).

There's a huge amount on the internet about it. Lots of news stories e.g. here and here One of the main gurus of the movement is Mr Money Mustache and his website is a good starting point www.mrmoneymustache.com

A lot of the FIRE discussion out there seems to be very US based and/or men in their 20s with no kids trying to retire extremely young so I though it'd be great to talk here and hopefully find likeminded people.

Just a word of caution. Its all well and good not wasting money but putting everything off like holidays until you've retired early could be something you regret. I've got arthiritis at 49 which means that I won't be able to do some of the things I could when I was younger.

Sorry to hear of your arthritis @RedHelenB, I don’t want to give up holidays, just have more affordable ones. We haven’t ever budgeted for holidays, just booked whatever we wanted. I still plan on going to amazing places but will try to keep it to a reasonable (for us) budget.

Interesting read for those of us trying to get partners on board:

forum.mrmoneymustache.com/ask-a-mustachian/how-to-convert-your-so-to-mmm-in-50-awesome-steps/

I would say we are very Fire-lite. Paid the mortgage off early and now throwing everything at pensions and savings to retire early to mid 50s. But we still make sure we have (pre covid) one big holiday a year and the occasional meal out.

@SeasonsInTheAbyss I am also a transport worker doing extreme shifts and I don't want to be doing them until retirement, or not full time - my aim is to go job share because I think 2 days a week of extreme shifts is eminently doable where 4 is not.

For me I'm focusing most on FI, I don't think I would fully retire very early but I love the idea of the psychological freedom that would come with being able to quit a job without worrying about it. And yes, to the pp who asked, for me I'd be considering hobby type things in addition to job share in my main job, with a view to transitioning to the hobby job as my only job at some point.

Completely agree RedHelenB, you just never know what the future holds (I have a couple of friends whose DHs died in their 50s), so I'm definitely not willing to give up travelling. And even if we're still in good health when we retire, we have so many happy memories of holidays with the DC - who probably won't want to come with us for much longer.

However, it's all about intentional spending for me. For example, we've had a couple of city breaks in England that have cost almost as much as our summer holidays used to, what with flights, accommodation, etc. It doesn't mean we can't visit London any more, just that we need to combine it with a visit to family, for example.

We're definitely FIRE-liters too; we're already in our 50s, so far too old to retire early in the FI sense. But it's good to have the option of cutting back our hours as we get older, possibly retiring at 60 (me rather than DH, I suspect), or even just having a bit more disposable income in retirement by not frittering it away now.

This is a really inspiring thread. I do feel a sinking in my stomach wondering if it's too late for me, reading about everyone being mortgage free, moving on to btl property etc. Before I get carried away with over-optimism, am I too late to start? I'm almost 40, still renting with very little savings, and pensions of only a few years in a couple of different jobs. My income is low because I'm part-time but I'm hoping to increase my hours once the youngest starts school. I've always been frugal, camping holidays every couple of years only, although I'm sure I could save a lot more, I certainly over spend on food. Is there any hope for me going forward to reach FI at least? (I won't be offended by no chance, I'll just manage my expectations!) What's the best path, just aim for a higher income then save it up?

@OchreBlue I'd say (speaking as a FIREliter at best 😁) set your goals for what's important to you. It might not be the same degree of independence as others but if it helps you then it's all good.

I have been doing a fair bit of reading on this over the last few days and it seems to be the general school of thought that it’s much easier to save money by not spending it that it is to make more.

I think this is a really good point @Dashel and easier to focus on.

Thanks Agnes that's really helpful, I think having goals is a good point. I think I tend to set too big a goal and perhaps breaking it down into smaller steps is a good way to look at it. I will have to do some research online on this, it sounds such a hopeful idea.

I wanted to share my excitement at opening my first stocks and shares Isa! Both DH and I have one and are investing £100 a month to start with. Once we are feeling a bit more secure with them, then I imagine that will go up.

I just need to get this big bill out of the way, which should hopefully be sorted this weekend and then it’s onwards and upwards for my OAP FiRE journey.

DH seems to be getting a bit more onboard, he isn’t quick to rush into sinking large sums of money into anything than can go down as well as up and doesn’t have protection on it and you can claim back if the bank goes bust Etc. So I am really proud of him.

We were supposed to be going to Mauritius for our next holiday but I’m trying to persuade him for something cheaper but still good. Holidays, food, diy costs and alcohol are usually our main expenses that have some wiggle room in them, as everything else is either fixed or as cheap as possible. So I’m going to work on these as much as possible but telling DH he is giving up booze is a bad idea, he doesn’t drink a lot so would be unfair tbh

Congratulations @Dashel! I have so much fun tracking the value of mine on the app, it has turned into a bit of a hobby. I keep saying to DH 'guess how much we have made on our investment now' ☺️

We also love a nice holiday. We have realised that we are prepared to do a lot of planning and researching ourselves though instead of going through a travel agent and have saved a lot of money doing that. It is very fun as well, I love planning out itineraries and working out where we are going to splurge vs save. Travel is one of the things we would not be prepared to sacrifice. As is responsibly sourced meat and houseplants ☺️

@Dashel that is great news-congrats!

Reading all of these undermines our spendthrift approach. It’s good to get reminders to reign it in...

@bertieb7 thank you. I am really excited. I just need to work out how to split spare cash between extra payments to my pension and increasing my direct debit to this and allowing some savings to build for holidays. How do others balance their funds after bills?

I hope I can get DH as onboard as yours seems to be. Meat is a rarity for DH as I’m a vegan so he has a limited amount of quality meat, but usually he’s vegan with cheese on top. How much you can spend on houseplants????

Haha, every time I go to the supermarket I seem to not be able to resist a new houseplant so felt I had to own up to that! 😂

To be honest, it took me a while to get DH onboard and he still isn't as enthusiastic as I am. I think he was slightly worried I was going to make him track everything and it like take over his life, and showing him how we can earn money on our investments has really helped encourage him.

I find balancing extra pension contributions and IsA contributions very difficult so need help myself, if anyone on here has some thoughts? The tax benefits of pension contributions are so attractive but then I am conscious that I could access the money until I am 60 and might want the option to retire before then. In the past few months I have definitely prioritised my ISA, while still paying the maximum salary percentage into my pension for my employer to match. It's a constant balancing act!

@AdoraBell, your DD is a great age to start, I’d really recommend her opening a stocks and shares isa even if she only puts in a little bit each month she won’t regret it. I just wish I’d started 10 years ago!

The Meaningful money podcast is really good, it explains investments, pensions, budgeting etc in really simple terms.

Thank you islandescape I’ll suggest that to her.

I'd second the Meaningful Money podcast; there's a huge back catalogue of episodes to listen to. He's also done a couple of interviews (back in 2019, I think) with the Escape Artist, one of the first FI bloggers I started reading, which are well worth a listen.

I forget to mention upthread that Ms ZiYou's podcast is called UK FI Pod; it's a shame there was only one series as I really enjoyed her interviews. Her voice does take a bit of getting used to as she speaks v e r y slowly in the introduction, but she's fine when she moves on to interviewing people. The Mad Fientist has done some interesting interviews too, although his podcast is a little more US-focused, and he also has an FI progress tracker on his website.

bertie I've found that showing DH how well our investments are doing has made him more interested in it all and he's even suggested investing in some more ETFs. He's also very accepting of me tracking every single penny we receive or spend, but I've always been a bit obsessed with tracking our finances, even before I discovered FI.

Dashel I'm also vegan and we buy very little meat - like you, it's normally vegan meals with cheese on top for everyone but me. I find WFPB (whole foods plant based) a very cheap way of eating as you don't spend much/anything on processed food or ready meals, but the rest of the family aren't convinced.

I agree that you can save a huge amount of money by planning your own holidays. We had a big holiday a few years ago and I got Trailfinders to price it all up as I thought they might be able to access better rates than I could, but I ended up doing it all myself in the end and it saved us several thousand pounds (even after I'd got Trailfinders to go as low as they could). Plus I actually really enjoy all the planning so it was win-win.

OchreBlue Definitely not too late to start; we still had a mortgage when I was 40 and I hadn't even heard of FI back then - I really wish I'd come across it 10 years ago (although it was much less well-known then). As others have said, you have to decide on your goals - which may not be retiring at 40 (too late for many of us!) or even 50 - but saving money (if you can) and working out the best thing to do with your savings is never a bad thing.

We've just decided to start investing €50 a month for the DC and will definitely talk to them about the importance of putting money away if you have even a small amount to spare. They're already quite good at putting any extra into their savings accounts, but with interest rates currently at 0.00000001% (or near enough!), it's not the place for long-term savings as the money is losing value year on year.

Popping in to say a very excited hello to you all!

I’m out the other side of FIRE, or perhaps more accurately, skinny FIRE.

I ‘retired’ at 50 in July when I took voluntary redundancy and downsized my house. I’ll be back tonight to read the thread properly, and to post my story, but essentially I made a choice when I divorced in my early 40s to live differently. Everything since then has felt purposeful, which is really powerful. I’m so pleased for you all!

Long story short, I now live a very different life. I still choose to work, but as a novelist ( my old side hustle), completely on my own terms, and every bit of planning was worth it.

Catch up with you all later!

May I join? I'm 35, and still have a sizeable mortgage on a 2 bed flat - that we will outgrow very soon! I have a toddler, but would like another baby in the not too distant future.

I am overpaying the mortgage by £2k a month at the moment - which would see us mortgage free by 43. But I imagine if we upsize we will take on more mortgage. I'm also trying to sort my meagre pensions & I have some savings with my DH.

I'm now considering opening an HL account. I've been paying a nominal £5 pw into a Moneybox account- which is approaching £2k, so I'm wondering if I should transfer this.

I'm not entirely sure of my end goals - just some freedom to choose I think.

Hello! What an interesting thread. Dh and I are doing our own version of FI. Both of us are part of our respective family businesses which can be very risky.

We're aiming to build up enough income from other sources so that in the good business years that's our fun money and in the bad business years it's our necessity money.

Both early 40's. House comes with the business. Dh has not traditional pension to speak of as family business will be expected to support him. I have a small ish pot that I like to try and add to as my family business isn't as generous!

We have one BTL already. Quite a bit saved up that we are thinking of either buying another or drip feeding the money into S&s ISA's over a few years. We're going to see what happens after the stamp duty finishes.

We live pretty frugally. However, having just hit our forties we'd like to be able to start spending a bit more on the house and holidays. We think we can do this and continue to contribute to our FI goal.

I've heard of this a few times, I always wonder if spending many years scrimping and saving (and for me not enojoying things in life) is with it to retire earlier. I do enjoy my job though.

I'd be interested to know what motivates people or thoughts on this.

Worth it. Typo sorry!

Hi @Dazedandconfused28 we paid off our mortgage about 5 years ago and will never get another one again, however I did this at the expense of my pension and stocks and shares ISAs so I would do some research into this if you already haven’t. I blindly paid it off thinking it was the best thing to do and whilst I’m glad we reduced it, I wish I had of put more into the savings side. Although if you want to move it may help. Some of the posters I have been reading about in your situation saved up for a deposit on a new place and rented the old one out.

@ I will be interested to read your post later, one thing I have been seriously thinking about is downsizing and buying to rent in this country and move abroad or downsizing to live in somewhere smaller in the UK. I think we could probably free up about 200k, more if went to buy abroad. We have a large house as there was potential for income from holiday let(s) from outbuildings but I don’t know if a simpler life would be better for us.

@FrugalFirefly DH is thankfully ok to mainly eat vegan plus his milk and cheese, which I don’t have , but he likes the ommph stuff, but i prefer to be buying more expensive convenience vegan foods than chicken for his Friday night treat of kebabs so I’m not going to try to change that. But generally it’s like you and whole plant foods as much as possible. Home made falafel pittas are so much cheaper, but we have both. I’m really interested in reducing our food costs as we are rural going to a supermarket is expensive in fuel and time costs, so we get mainly food deliveries from Tesco so no yellow stickers or being able to pop from shop to shop to get deals. Ideally we would go to Aldi or Lidl and stock up on tins and long life stuff, but it’s an hours round trip and as I’m wfh and as we are supposed to shop individually I don’t fancy doing a massive shop on my own in there.

This is such an interesting read. Does anyone have websites or particularly blogs they can recommend?

I am not familiar (yet) with the podcasts but the Mr Money Mustache forum has been eye opening. Although American there are a few Brits on there

It’s on a different level to MSE and Dave Ramsey.

ThroughThickandThin Mr Money Mustache is the FIRE blog and is what got me interested in FI initially. There's no real UK equivalent, but blogs I read include The Escape Artist, Quietly Saving, Monethalia and The Fire Starter (although he doesn't seem to have posted for a while). Monevator isn't specifically FIRE-related but is good on the financial aspects - if you're interested in learning more about passive investing, for example.

Dashel DH would also rather have expensive vegan convenience foods than meat, and I think it's the lesser of two evils. Don't get me wrong, I'm not one of those clean food advocates who never lets a morsel of processed food pass their lips, but my treats tend to be cheap-ish things like chocolate and biscuits (I bake a lot as it's almost impossible to find vegan biscuits in the supermarket here) rather than the ridiculously expensive fake meats. (Although they can be time-saving, I must admit.) It sounds tricky with the supermarkets; we only have fairly small ones here and real bargains are few and far between - I'm always and when I go to Tesco in the UK and find things reduced to 10p, or a packet of vegan sausages for £1 - but at least we can get to the shops fairly easily.

Okokokbear I don't feel like I'm scrimping or missing out on anything at all; it's more to do with being aware of what we spend our money on and deciding that certain things are worth it, others less so. We're happy to spend a bit more on travelling and holidays, for example, but I hardly ever buy clothes as I already have enough to last me a lifetime for quite a while. I've always had a fairly frugal mindset and have also always enjoyed saving and tracking my incomings and outgoings, so I really don't feel like I'm depriving myself at all.

Hello to flowerycurtain, Dazedandconfused and Esca - look forward to hearing your story later!