Nursing Home - no contract signed, do we pay?

[Katiekitty]

Hello - I seem to be monopolising the board with queries today, sorry! I've just got a big tangle of things happening all at once.

Basically, the situation is this:
My mother went from an nhs hospital into a private nursing home, where she eventually died as she had cancer.

The nursing home's standard terms of business state that all patients pay a deposit (two weeks's fees and two week's non-refundable fees for community charge), plus all patients are billed either monthly or two-weekly for residency fees. Plus, a contract must be signed stating they accept these terms.

It turns out, my mother never signed her contract, nor was there a witness signature and neither did the nursing home sign the contract. There is nothing signed to the effect that my late mother agreed to their terms or their fees.

Also, she never paid a deposit or any fees, despite staying there for some 12 weeks.

Just so you know, the fees were £760 + vat per week, amounting to £3,311 per month.

Where do we stand legally about paying the outstanding fees for my mother's residency if nothing was signed. The nursing home have admitted there was 'a problem' (their words) with her paying. I firmly believe that my mother did not fully comprehend the terms of business when she was admitted.

Can anyone advise me on this? It's a very complicated situation and I don't have any legal knowledge but I am hoping that an unsigned contract might put me in a barganing situation.

Thank you all in advance
KK xxxx

I think you probably have to pay.
Is there a reason why you don't want to - was there a problem with her care?

Did they provide everything they were contractually obliged to provide? If so, why do you not want to pay them?

It's a long and complicated story, I don't think my mother was properly advised as to her care by her social worker. She was expected to die any day even when she was in the nhs hospital and so I thought she needed specialist care, maybe hospice care, rather that paying for a room with a fancy television and five star meals that she was billed for but never ate as she was just on morphine all the time.

I am not complaining about her care at the nursing home, just angry that she went to the most expensive nursing home in her county. It's like checking yourself into the Ritz with a de luxe suite and round the clock room service all layed out on trolleys in front of you, while you really sleep in a b&b and eat a pot noodle.

A bit of background: my mother lived a life along the lines of Hyacinth Bucket: she would have checked herself into the pricy nursing home to show off to everyone, but she made no provision for paying for it. We are struggling to sell her (very average)) house to pay for all her bills. I think her social worker should have checked her financial situation a little deeper than she did and that is what I am not happy about.

That doesn't mean that the nursing home should lose 12 weeks worth of fees though. If they provided the care then they should be paid.

I can see it must be frustrating but you can't refuse to pay. Take the issue with the social
worker up with the relevant people.

Well, given the update I would think that you would be able to tell the nursing home that you have to sell the house in order to pay your mothers bills. Once the house is sold, then you will be able to see if there is enough money to meet all the bills. If there is enough money then I think you are morally (but probably not legally) obliged to pay. If there is not enough money, then I would probably take some legal advice on what should be paid first.

And I should add that if there is enough money to pay, then just accept that it was your mothers money - so her decision.

I'm not refusing to pay at all! Just wondering if there's any room for negotiation as she didn't eat any of the food she paid for, nor any of the other luxury things.
I am so cross with the social worker as my mother was receiving excellent care also in the nhs hospital and she was scared about being asked to leave. I spoke with the nurses on the ward and they made it perfectly clear that she would have a bed there for as long as she wanted and no one was going to ask her to leave. A few days later, folowing a visit from a relative, the social worker called me and said my mother was going into the private nursing home. I was confused by this and 24 hours later, she was there. I think my mother was doing it to impress said family member, previously, during a visit, she was saying in a (loud) voice that she was going to go to a private nursing home as there were lots of visitors around. When I told her their fees (I told her in private so not to embarrass her), she cried and said not to let her go as she couldn't afford anything near that sum.
I'm sorry for the ramble, I don't really know where I'm going with this, I just feel that she was shunted off to the top notch home by a social worker who fell for her rich lady act. She could be very believable, but just led an average life. If nothing is contractually signed, could the social worker have any liability? It's a long shot but I don't know how the system works. Not that she should pay from her own pocket, but maybe the nhs hospital could? I don't know.

Did she not eat anything whilst at the care home?

But if there is enough money in you mother's estate to pay the fees then there's no financial issue.

I know, just clutching at straws, I feel that something wrong was done and I'm not happy about it.
It's like if someone wanted a suit and they asked where they should go and instead of M&S or TK Maxx, they got sent to Armani. I think she was mis-advised and I feel there is nothing I can do about it, it's all so futile.
Should I just accept it then?

Tiredmamma - pretty much no! She'd have a few sips of watered down soup a day. She had stomach cancer and lost virtually every ounce of flesh she had. Most of the time she was in a morphine induced sleep.

Stripey - she will be able to pay for it once all the funds are put together, I just think she had no understanding of how much it was going to really cost her. She said she wanted myself, my sister and her grandchildren to 'have everything' but once all her finances are accouted for, there isn't anything! I resent that social worker steamrollering her along into this very expensive nursing home so much.

It does sound like she was not advised properly and that it was not the right place for her needs. You really should take it up with ss, doubt you'd get any money from them but they should explain why they encouraged her to make that decision when it sounds like it was unnecessary.

Seems that no one did their job properly. I'd complain.

Wonder what ss will say?

contact social workwer - she might have been admitted under the "continuing care" system

what is c/care ipod? - am interested in this as have probs with a care home as well (hope you don't mind me asking this on your thread KatieKitty)

Hello MLPoney - no problem at all as I'm not too sure what it is either! Go for it ipod, it might be useful to know what it is before I contact SS. x

Hi Katiekitty, I agree that it is worth checking with the SW whether your mother was admitted under the continuing care system. Continuing care is provided and funded by the NHS (but can be provided in a nursing home setting). People are assessed for their eligibility for continuing care and it is based around whether their health problems are their main need.
It sounds like you may have been given confusing information. If your mother was paying for her own nursing care, a financial assessment would have been carried out to determine her ability to pay.
It might also be worth contacting Age Concern who may be able to advise you.

thanks mustrest - will check this
katiekitty