Please tell me about Bitcoin... the Good, the Bad and the Ugly.

[shadypines]

What is it? Is it a scam? BIL has got involved so I'm a bit concerned as he has a history of being rubbish with money. Thanks

Can you confirm that your Sterling has come from an ethcially appropriate source?

Anyhow, the OP was asking how to buy, sell and store Crypto. So I thnk best to stick to topic.

@ListeningQuietly

Fromdownwest Your links are from 2019 The computing power needed to mine a single bitcoin has increased exponentially since then.

the FT and the Economist in 2021 have both decried the carbon footprint of an incredibly inefficient "currency"

Yeah. you are right. Those links are out of date. They refer to 74% being powered by renewables, which is 2019 figures, in 2020, University of Cambridge found 76% and the latest study in 2021 is 78%.

If you understand bitcoin, you realise that fossil fuel use is a disaster for a miner, because energy is the biggest cost in mining. Investment in renewable energy keeps them competitive into the future, because the energy consumption will always grow.

Anyhow, the OP was asking how to buy, sell and store Crypto. So I thnk best to stick to topic.

No it wasn't. The OP asked what it was and for "the good, the bad and the ugly". The environmental concerns are definitely "the ugly".

It really really is not.

Bitcoin's design means that renewable sources are intrinsically superior, because as fossil fuels run out they become more expensive, so miners who use renewables have the advantage.

By contrast, the dollar is backed by oil, it has been since the 70s when Nixon ripped up Bretton Woodsin the aftermath of the Vietnam War and did a deal with OPEC, to ensure that Oil could only be traded in dollars.

@Cailleachian - And a lot and lot of War!

Renewables are not finite either. And the more renewable energy resource that it taken for nebulous things like creating virtual currency, the less there is for more concrete things like feeding people and heating homes.

But my main point was that fromdownwest was trying to shut down any discussion about whether bitcoin is environmentally unfriendly by claiming that the Op was about how to buy, sell and store, which it patently wasn't.

[quote fromdownwest]@Cailleachian - And a lot and lot of War![/quote]
Exactly - war, oil and dollars are all caught up together

Dollars are backed by oil
Oil is secured through war
Wars are funded by dollars.

whereas in bitcoin
Bitcoins are created through energy
Bitcoins are secured by the energy of the network
Bitcoins are spent to increase the energy available,

A virtuous rather than vicious cycle.

Bitcoin : the good the bad and the ugly
www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2542435121000830
As the price of Bitcoin rises, the negative externalities associated with Bitcoin mining increase in kind. This Commentary has shown how a simple economic model might be used to estimate the potential environmental impact of Bitcoin mining for a given Bitcoin price. These estimates reveal that the record-breaking surge in Bitcoin price at the start of 2021 could result in the network consuming as much energy as all data centers globally, with an associated carbon footprint matching London’s footprint size.

Bitcoin will never become a mass fiat currency because it is too inefficient.
It is great for speculators at the moment
but "gains" only come when bitcoin are exchanged back into a currency accepted by the high street.

I don't see anything virtuous about that cycle, it's just a spiral of increasing energy use and very much akin to the modern capitalist systems that are based on a requirement for continuous economic growth. Environmentally, the planet cannot sustain continuous growth and continous increase of resource requirement.

"Renewables are not finite either. And the more renewable energy resource that it taken for nebulous things like creating virtual currency, the less there is for more concrete things like feeding people and heating homes."

But because they arent finite, that people can mine btc, as well as heat homes or feed people.

If I put a solar panel on my roof, I can mine btc without anyone going hungry or cold, precisely because I am adding to the available energy supply.

@user1495884673 - Fair comment

@ListeningQuietly

Bitcoin : the good the bad and the ugly www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2542435121000830 As the price of Bitcoin rises, the negative externalities associated with Bitcoin mining increase in kind. This Commentary has shown how a simple economic model might be used to estimate the potential environmental impact of Bitcoin mining for a given Bitcoin price. These estimates reveal that the record-breaking surge in Bitcoin price at the start of 2021 could result in the network consuming as much energy as all data centers globally, with an associated carbon footprint matching London’s footprint size.

Bitcoin will never become a mass fiat currency because it is too inefficient.
It is great for speculators at the moment
but "gains" only come when bitcoin are exchanged back into a currency accepted by the high street.

People said that Amazon was a fad and it would never take over Sears, the internet was a gimmick for computer nerds.

I think the movement of BTC as a form of payment will come, when that is, I don't know. I think to say Never is a bit strong.

I sometimes use it for large purchases when the market gets frothy, but in general Id rather spend fiat and keep the btc wherever possible.

But its nice to have the option. If you are a bitcoiner and use Amazon, you can get a nice little discount for paying in btc. with purse.io

If I put a solar panel on my roof, I can mine btc without anyone going hungry or cold, precisely because I am adding to the available energy supply.

You only have a finite amount of roof though (unless you live in Escher's house) and your bitcoin return will reduce as the calculations increase in complexity but you won't be able to increase your available energy.

I'm falling down a bit of an internet rabbit hole now (thanks you lot ). Whether the energy use is renewable isn't the whole story. China is the biggest miner of bitcoin (seems to be about 65%) which ties in with high renewable energy use for bitcoin as they have a lot of hydroelectric power but there is a lot of controversy over the environmental and social effects of some of their projects.

@user1495884673

If I put a solar panel on my roof, I can mine btc without anyone going hungry or cold, precisely because I am adding to the available energy supply.

You only have a finite amount of roof though (unless you live in Escher's house) and your bitcoin return will reduce as the calculations increase in complexity but you won't be able to increase your available energy.

But you would still have your BTC or satoshi.

Granted as we reach the finite number of coins, the calculations become increasingly complex and hungry.

That does not diminish the Value of the BTC though. If anything, it increases it. Unlike Sterling or Dollars, new currency can not just be 'printed'.

So it has a more of an intrinsic value.

Blockchains have their uses.
I'm a big fan of certain applications of them.

Bitcoin is pure speculation and until it stops being frothy
which it cannot due to the nature of the mining
it will never become a reliable currency.

You cannot make a forward contract in a currency that moves as much as Bitcoin does
hence why traders like to use the Dollar or Euro

Anybody who thinks they can run a bitcoin mining server with domestic solar panels needs to read more

Bitcoin is a completely reliable currency.

I know exactly how much of the total supply I own at any time, and I know what its issuance is, I cannot say the same for any fiat currency.

You absolutely can run a mining rig with domestic solar panels, I know people who do, although usually they mine Monero or Litecoin then swap for BTC.

Bitcoin is a completely reliable currency.
Would you book a July holiday in a fixed Bitcoin price?
Does your Bank take bitcoin to pay their charges?
So supermarkets take bitcoin at the checkout?

If you order and pay for a sofa in bitcoin for delivery in 13 weeks, would you be happy that the supplier has taken the value fluctuation gain?

Bitcoin is the modern tulip bulb.
Blockchain is now being held back by its reputation.

I would (and have) booked flights in btc. I wouldnt do so at the moment, tho, as I think the exchange rate will increase.

My bank doesnt take btc to pay its charges, but thats just the price I pay for participating in the legacy banking system

I can pay for groceries with a btc prepaid debt card, or possibly directly with BTC using Morrisons through Amazon although I've never tried ordering groceries.

I would never pay for something like a sofa with a long delivery date in btc, because of the risk of the company going bankrupt. I would however be happy to put wrapped btc into a smart supply chain contract based on payment on delivery. Much safer than paying cash.

I know a lad who won £50k online gambling about 3-4 years ago. He invested in Bitcoin plus others and now has currency valued at roughly £1M

I was considering buying into it but whenever I spoke to him for advice he would speak to me like somebody that understands it 100% and confuse me after a matter of seconds

I agree that you certainly need to go to a reputable provider in order to buy cryptocurrency. However, there are outfits other than Coinbase and Binance that are not only competitive but also provide a more personal customer service - you can actually talk to someone.

I use an independent to buy my cryptocurrency. The pricing is very competitive and the customer support is very responsive and helpful. It’s the only place I know where support will call you if necessary. They don't provide a wallet but if you are a newbie, like I was, they will give you some guidance. If you already have a wallet then you’re all set.

And there we have the ugly of bitcoin! Spammers!

How to solve antminer T17 log tips temperature error?If the entire miner log indicates a temperature error, then we can upgrade the firmware first. If the error is still displayed, check the amperage of the power input. The undervoltage of the power supply will also prevent the entire machine from reading the temperature.
www.zeusbtc.com/articles/information/188-how-to-solve-antminer-t17-log-tips-temperature-error