Coronavirus Job Retention Scheme

[3peicesuite]

Couple questions for you folks.

Last year I was furloughed for 6 weeks, 2 days after PM's announcement using the job retention scheme. Ever since I have been confuse about what I am entitled to with regards to pay. I work for a small business and our office secretary is notorious for getting things wrong like holiday pay and paternity leave.

So a bit of background:

First off, I don't have an employment contract, never have had one and never received a verbal one. ( I know I have the right to ask for one, but as I work for a family business with incredibly difficult family, there is no point in asking)

I am an engineer, and every week I work overtime at 2 specific rates, i work 40 hours at hourly rate, then i work anything between 4 and 8 hours (often more but never less) at 1.5x hourly rate. I have done this every week for 8 year. I only work these under the pretence that it is paid and unpaid overtime does not exist. I do not have a contract stating basic hours and this overtime isn't really optional, its just incorporated into the working week now.

I have tried tirelessly to research and understand what is to be included in the furlough calculations, and I keep coming to the same conclusion; My wage is variable and thus should include the overtime and be averaged. I'm no expert in employment law so I'm not really sure myself, I'm finding differing definitions of 'non-discretionary overtime' which is making it difficult.

When I was furloughed last year, my wage reduced drastically as this was calculated at 80% of 40hr rather than 80% of variable wage averaged. Other people I know in similar industry, with same thing (Overtime every week for years) had it incorporated into there wage and based on that so I believe its possible, I just want to check.

I've been furloughed again for 3 weeks. The first week I'm being told is now a week of our holiday allocation. this is strange because I read somewhere you need 2 days notice for every day, so 2 week notice for a weeks holiday. I was informed on friday that it was to being on monday. so not even a few days notice.

Any help with where I stand and what I could do without seriously aggravating the bossed would be much appreciated

TIA

My sil is an accountant when she was explaining furlough to me she said they do not include overtime at all and this was goverment mandated.
This is obviously second hand so someone else may be along with more information soon.
Can you ask your employer to breaks down your pay?
They deducted annual leave from me during furlough but sorry not sure of the legal aspects of this.

Why are you still working for a company that doesn't even follow the basics of employment law?? It was always going to go badly wrong at some point.

Furlough is very complicated and most companies are getting it wrong.

Try ringing ACAS.

If they dont include overtime theres nothing you can do if they are paying you what they"ve claimed, and they're more than likely being careful not to over-claim.

In theory they could have calculated as an average if you are an irregular hours worker. But it's all subjective/discretionary etc.

If they have claimed in good faith using a reasonable method and you have received that money, theres not much you can do. In fact I'd say, nothing you can do.

Many people are receiving 80% of contracted (not average) hours based on left years NMW 🤷‍♀️ you'll get nowhere with HMRC or ACAS on the furlough imo.

The rest sounds like bad management and admin but you've gone along with it thus far and your contract will be implied by now.
Do you get payslips?

Also in theory they should give you notice re holiday pay.
But we're in a pandemic and you should give them some leeway.
What exactly is your problem with this? What us your aim? Do you have somewhere to complain to in mind?

I'm just wondering what your point is I suppose!

You are not obliged to say with your current employer. You can just leave at any time if you're not happy!

Any holiday needs to be paid at 100% not 80%.

Thankfully all my staff have been salaried but there are rules to follow for variable pay workers.

If you put your question on accountingweb you may get someone to do some calculations for you

Thanks for your quick responses

I totally understand that it's different times and have to be understanding of business volatility atm, I've done a lot of work in a local pub every weekend and see what they've had to go through and its heartbreaking. As for the industry that I'm an engineer in, they have not been affected by vivid, it's a very niche market locally, I'm not going to say what because I could then be identified through a simple Google search haha.

Anyway, the business I work for have never been affected. We go through two quiet spells every year. January and April. Every year is the same. We were furloughed last march/April simply because we were in our quiet spell and my employer tool the opportunity. Then again this January I was furloughed after being back for 2 days because we were in our usual quiet spell and they took the opportunity again (normally we use this time to improve our workshop, organise, stock take and things)

I don't have anyone to complain to I understand that, and as for moving employers, I've been offered several jobs in our niche industry with other local engineers, but always falls last minute when they realise I am part of the family that runs another engineering business in the same industry (incase the cause upset).

I suppose if I knew exactly what I was entitled to, I could then be confident in pressing the office staff about it, because from the research I've done, it appears that they have done the same and are simply playing it too safe.

I understand playing it safe, but these are people's wages and livelihoods at stake. I totally understand that many other people are in the same boat as me, just wondered if anyone could offer some clarity.

Thanks again for taking the time 😀