Meet the Other Phone. Child-safe in minutes.

Meet the Other Phone.
Child-safe in minutes.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Money matters

Find financial and money-saving discussions including debt and pension chat on our Money forum. If you're looking for ways to make your money to go further, sign up to our Moneysaver emails here.

Unpaid school debt

34 replies

KatieBw · 05/12/2020 13:11

My now 19 year old DS had attended an independent school for 11 years but in his first gcse year, things started to go really wrong in terms of his behaviour and academic performance. He was being routinely punished through detentions and suspensions to the point where he was one suspension away from expulsion. He had experienced years of his father continually taking me to the family court and it felt to me like everything was impacting at once. Many of his infractions were to do with disorganisation and time-keeping, rather than REALLY bad stuff and I felt that his new senior year teacher didn't really 'get' him, so he had little pastoral support. This time 4 years ago, when he had just turned 15, I went to school to meet with the head and deputy head in what would be my final meeting with them and when my son felt very close to the end of the line.
I had an overwhelming feeling in the meeting that they were 'done' with my DS, there appeared to be no strategy beyond more punishment and no consideration towards what I believed were the deeper underlying causes of his behaviour. I pointed out that his essay scaffolding appeared to be very poor and the head asked if I had "thought about a learning difficulty" and we agreed that my son would be tested for any SEN. I left the meeting feeling very dejected and unsupported and that, without a shift in attitude around my DS, he was inevitably about to be expelled.
Maybe a week later, sen test results confirmed my son had slow processing and I believed this would've accounted for some of his struggle as he clearly had additional educational support requirements that hadn't been met.
This is almost exactly 4 years ago. I had a panic to find another school as few had entry through gcse year. I felt that had no option but to pull him out fast, there had been no further contact from the teachers or the head following the meeting or the sen results, I felt my DS had been really let down and he started at another school straight after Christmas. I had not given a terms notice to the previous school and when they sent me an invoice in the January, I emailed back to inform the bursar that he had left.
In the time since, I have heard nothing from the school and had no correspondence from them. I have moved house but had post forwarded and anyway my usual communication had been via email. My DS is now at uni, once his sen had been realised provisions could be made and he eventually got back on track.
I realised I had been obliged to give a terms notice but actually had felt boxed into a corner and that expulsion was imminent. As so many years have passed and having not heard anything, I have naively - stupidly? - assumed the school felt vaguely complicit and realised I had been left with very few options. That the notice period was null and void. This is largely based on my never having heard from them again.
Today however I received a letter from a collections agency stating the school as their client. This is nearly 4 years later and with no prior notice. I have not managed to speak to either the collections or the school but can anyone advise re my position on this? 1. I do not have the money to pay the bill at all (my financial circumstances are much changed for the worse) 2. I believe that my sons father may have co-signed the original school documentation so therefore would be responsible for at least 50% of the bill. He has been living in France and MIA for many years. 3. Do I have any right to appeal, based on the circumstances above and also the fact I have never received ANY notification re pursuing me? If I had, I could've stated my case, inc the schools failings towards its duty of care OR could've negotiated payment. This has come out of the blue and been a real shock to my system today, would really appreciate any advice, thank you 🙏🏽

OP posts:
Anjo2011 · 05/12/2020 13:17

Make contact with the school bursar and explain the situation. Now it is in the hands of creditors the bill may increase with charges. Ask if they can offer you a payment plan. My guess is that they are chasing the debt due to reduced incomes from pupils , there are families that have had to access hardship funds as circumstances for many have changed this year. Contact the school, you will be able to work something out.

SandysMam · 05/12/2020 13:18

How much is the bill for? Can you pay say £1 a week or something forever?

Couchpotato3 · 05/12/2020 13:21

Contact the bursar, explain your current financial situation and offer to pay whatever you can afford. Sometimes debts like this are written off if the family is broke and there is little hope of recovering the money. Schools often hand over their old debts to collection agencies, but as far as I know, they are still in control, so could cancel the involvement of the agency at any time.

MrsBrunch · 05/12/2020 13:23

I realised I had been obliged to give a terms notice

That's your answer really. You are in breach of contract so you will be liable to pay.

LolaSmiles · 05/12/2020 13:24

It could easily be that correspondence was tried by post after your mail redirect expired, depending on how long you set it up for. My understanding is that there are steps to flow before an outside agency gets in touch.

At the point which he left you could have checked the notice period, or once he was settled in a new school you could have contacted the school to ensure all accounts and records were closed down. Even then since you realised you had a term's notice to give, that would have been a good time to get in writing that there's nothing outstanding. Keeping quiet for years and assuming nobody would say anything was always a risk.

I dont think you can try to argue that you don't have to pay because your financial situation has changed or that he left quickly due to what you consider their failings. At best you could speak to the bursar and see what arrangements can be made to pay.

meditrina · 05/12/2020 13:33

The notice period has not been voided, and the school have probably been going to some lengths to find you

You knew thus clause was in the contract, and if you wanted to dispute it, you needed to do exactly that, raise the dispute. Not vanish with no contact information.

If in England, you're still well within 6 years limit that applies.

So you need to sort this out properly. Start by engaging with the school. Did you actually use any of the grievance procedures, cascading through all of them - ie use opportunity for rememdy within the contract before deciding that you will be looking to go outside it (withholding payments you knew to be due)

You are almost certainly jointly and severally due for the fees btw, so as ex is outside UK (beyond reach of Courts and debt collectors) you'll be held responsible for the lot - especially as you have been the person who has been paying the fees for so many years

KatieBw · 05/12/2020 13:35

Tbh my life totally fell apart through this time. It's not excuse, just a fact and I have been unable to deal with most things sadly. My second marriage fell apart as my husband was extremely abusive and family services had to get my kids and I out. I had to put my business into liquidation so I've lost a lot of financial autonomy. So my life has really changed and I have struggled to cope. I know all sounds slightly pathetic. I will contact the bursar and am also concerned re why me and not my DS's father also.

OP posts:
KatieBw · 05/12/2020 13:38

My ex had signed a court order saying he was 50% liable for fees although these rarely transpired. I believe he signed the original school contract with me.

OP posts:
meditrina · 05/12/2020 14:09

It does sound as if you have had a tough time.

You need to do back and take the steps needed to raise the complaint from 4 years ago and see it through to the end.

As there is another court order, you may need to take legal advce based on that specific order - they way may be open for you to reclaim the proportion of fees he should have paid.

MrsBrunch · 05/12/2020 14:56

why me and not my DS's father also

You are probably both liable but not 50/50. They will pursue both of you for the full amount until someone pays it.

LolaSmiles · 05/12/2020 15:00

You are probably both liable but not 50/50. They will pursue both of you for the full amount until someone pays it
That's what I thought. Just like if two people get into rent arrears then the company will pursue either of them until the money is paid.

rottiemum88 · 05/12/2020 15:03

@KatieBw

My ex had signed a court order saying he was 50% liable for fees although these rarely transpired. I believe he signed the original school contract with me.
As a couple of PPs have pointed out, you're jointly liable but as far as the debt is concerned you're both 100% liable, not half each.
KatieBw · 05/12/2020 15:25

@MrsBrunch

why me and not my DS's father also

You are probably both liable but not 50/50. They will pursue both of you for the full amount until someone pays it.

But to my knowledge they arent pursuing him at all. Only me. We joint signed the contract, he and I had a court order in place that said he had to pay half which he rarely did. I am confused as to why I would be liable for 100% of the debt
OP posts:
Allllllaboutme · 05/12/2020 15:34

There's a big market for debt collectors who buy these debts.

You are liable and will need to sort it, it might be too late to speak to the school as they may have sold it on, but speaking to them would be my first step.

I hope they are understanding and you can come to an agreement.

2bazookas · 05/12/2020 15:34

The consequences of unpaid debt, are that the collection service could take you to court, obtain a judgement against your name, and bailliffs will arrive to remove belongings they can sell to cover your debt.Like, your computer, TV, car.

 A court judgement for debt  is a public record that will  damage your credit rating. Make  it difficult to buy goods on credit,  rent property,  hire a car ,  start up your business again.  

DS was 15  when he got into trouble ; the school (not you)  suggested an SEN assessment  which was done quickly.  That does not support any accusation of  failure of care on their part.  When you got the result you did not discuss it with the school, but withdrew him from it "fast".  Again, no failure on their part.  Four years later he's passed GCSE and A levels and is at university.   If the first school had  failed in their duty of care  and education it;s highly unlikely that at 15,  he  could have caught  up the GCSE and A level  work and results in time to enter  university at the usual age.

 So, stop hoping  your ex will save the day or you can  refuse to pay  school bill because the school failed their duty of care.  It's your debt,  it's not going to go away and you need to act fast   to avoid worse trouble.
unfortunateevents · 05/12/2020 15:35

The court order will be separate to the contract you signed with the school. If you say your ex is missing in France how would the school track him down? You need to check what the terms of the contract say but you may well find that you are jointly and severally liable in which case they can pursue one or both of you for the full amount of the debt.

MrsBrunch · 05/12/2020 15:36

I am confused as to why I would be liable for 100% of the debt

You are both 100% liable. They don't care who pays it, as long as it is paid.

safariboot · 05/12/2020 15:50

If it's joint and several liability, then the creditor can pursue whichever debtor they like for the full amount. The logic is that it's then down to each debtor to sue the other debtors for the share. Usually the creditor goes for whoever they can find who they think has the deepest pockets, but they don't have to. (And in your case presumably they can't find your ex.)

If you contest the debt, the final decision is when the creditor sues you, you make your defence in court. You would have to argue on legal grounds, for example that the school breached the contract with their actions. If you lose, you have 30 days to pay including any costs before the CCJ goes on your credit report.

The school may be prepared to come to an agreement before then. Check whether they still own the debt and are just contracting collectors, or whether the debt has actually been sold.

Debt collectors have no power, their approach is just to harass you. Only court bailiffs and sheriffs have power, and they can only call after you have been taken to court and lost your case.

If the debt is held against you and is substantially more than your assets, you're probably looking at bankruptcy or IVA. Regard these as processes that write off debts you have no hope of paying and give you a second chance.

Chloemol · 05/12/2020 15:53

To be honest I would contact the school, and explain again the situation in you have into remove your son and why no notice was given and see if it can all be waives as it was almost them forcing you to take your son out

If they still insist then that is the time I would be saying I am then going to sue the school for their lack of care and for the stress caused to you and your son in his gcse year buy their lack of support for his identified additional needs,

MrsBrunch · 05/12/2020 16:08

@Chloemol

To be honest I would contact the school, and explain again the situation in you have into remove your son and why no notice was given and see if it can all be waives as it was almost them forcing you to take your son out

If they still insist then that is the time I would be saying I am then going to sue the school for their lack of care and for the stress caused to you and your son in his gcse year buy their lack of support for his identified additional needs,

I don't think that's very good advice. OP is unlikely to be able to prove school were liable for her lack of notice and she will end up with court costs to pay (theirs as well as her own).
LolaSmiles · 05/12/2020 16:09

To be honest I would contact the school, and explain again the situation in you have into remove your son and why no notice was given and see if it can all be waives as it was almost them forcing you to take your son out

If they still insist then that is the time I would be saying I am then going to sue the school for their lack of care and for the stress caused to you and your son in his gcse year buy their lack of support for his identified additional needs
This sort of confrontational approach won't be in the OP's best interests.

Having slow processing doesn't offset behaviour to the point where a student is one step away from exclusion.
It is highly, highly unlikely that a student would be excluded from school for a bit of poor time keeping and being a bit disorganised.

Throughout the post there is a repeated thread of minimising her son's behaviour or reasons why her son's behaviour is down to everything other than him. The OP only suggested a potential SEN need when it got to the point of exclusion being on the cards, which suggests it's likely to be a mild SpLD. If his ability and strategies were good enough he got several decent GCSEs and was able to progress to university then she will really struggle to argue that he was so poorly provided for in his first school that it amounts to them not fulfilling their part of the contract.
The school will have gone through several courses of action before excluding was on the cards.

The OP knew there was a term's notice, even if they forgot at the time and did nothing, even burying her head in the sand and telling herself the school must have accepted they were at fault.

Throughout the whole situation there's always a reason why her actions and her son's actions are caused by something else, isn't their fault, and so on.

I don't doubt it sounds like a less than ideal relationship with the school, but people ought to be careful before suggesting posters make allegations that are very difficult to substantiate in order to get out of paying a debt.

sneakysnoopysniper · 05/12/2020 16:09

I would recommend contacting the Consumer Action Group as they have some very knowledgeable and legally qualified people who can advise you. There may well be people there who can help you mount a defence as the school appear to have shown a lack in their duty of care.

www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/63-welcome-to-the-consumer-forums/

The debt industry is notoriously corrupt. Debt collectors have no more power than I do to make you pay money. Only a court can do that. They buy up old debts for pence in the pound and try to terrify people into paying.

Worst scenario is that the court orders you to pay at a rate you can afford. So long as you turn up to the hearing and obey the court order there is not a damned thing they can do.

Cygne · 05/12/2020 16:21

If they still insist then that is the time I would be saying I am then going to sue the school for their lack of care and for the stress caused to you and your son in his gcse year buy their lack of support for his identified additional needs

Just don't. Schools tend to defend such claims very aggressively. An acquaintance tried this and very quickly found legal bills were far outweighing the amount actually claimed.

KatieBw · 05/12/2020 17:11

@LolaSmiles

To be honest I would contact the school, and explain again the situation in you have into remove your son and why no notice was given and see if it can all be waives as it was almost them forcing you to take your son out

If they still insist then that is the time I would be saying I am then going to sue the school for their lack of care and for the stress caused to you and your son in his gcse year buy their lack of support for his identified additional needs
This sort of confrontational approach won't be in the OP's best interests.

Having slow processing doesn't offset behaviour to the point where a student is one step away from exclusion.
It is highly, highly unlikely that a student would be excluded from school for a bit of poor time keeping and being a bit disorganised.

Throughout the post there is a repeated thread of minimising her son's behaviour or reasons why her son's behaviour is down to everything other than him. The OP only suggested a potential SEN need when it got to the point of exclusion being on the cards, which suggests it's likely to be a mild SpLD. If his ability and strategies were good enough he got several decent GCSEs and was able to progress to university then she will really struggle to argue that he was so poorly provided for in his first school that it amounts to them not fulfilling their part of the contract.
The school will have gone through several courses of action before excluding was on the cards.

The OP knew there was a term's notice, even if they forgot at the time and did nothing, even burying her head in the sand and telling herself the school must have accepted they were at fault.

Throughout the whole situation there's always a reason why her actions and her son's actions are caused by something else, isn't their fault, and so on.

I don't doubt it sounds like a less than ideal relationship with the school, but people ought to be careful before suggesting posters make allegations that are very difficult to substantiate in order to get out of paying a debt.

Regardless of the debt, I can't help feeling the school DID let him down because there was one unyielding strategy to deal with him and it simply wasn't working. I am not going to aggressively pursue this but I could tell they had just given up on him. I was in a panic and did not want him to have an expulsion on his record. In the final meeting, the head told me he felt my DS was in the "wrong school", it didn't feel like much of an olive branch or offer much hope. He told me he had serious concerns about where DS would end up.
DS actually got terrible gcse results and had to resit English language in year 12. We avoided A levels altogether and he took a music diploma in a state college. That's how he got enough ucas points to get into university and when my business folded I was able to be much more present for him as a parent. Plus he grew up a bit and started making positive decisions. So he got there in the end but def by hook or by crook.
OP posts:
SingHallelujah · 05/12/2020 17:40

Thing is, that horse has bolted. If you weren't happy with them you needed to complain and discuss the outstanding fees then.

Saying it now seems like grasping at straws to avoid the debt.

Sucks but that's how it is.

Please create an account

To comment on this thread you need to create a Mumsnet account.

This thread is closed and is no longer accepting replies. Click here to start a new thread.

Swipe left for the next trending thread