Is my reaction wrong?

[doubleaces89]

Hi. 1st post here so apologies if I've posted in wrong section.

15 years ago purchased 3 bed terraced with DW. Mum and my brother moved in with me, due to overcrowding and other issues.

In intervening years, now have 3 children (10, 8, & 5), and brother has moved on. Mum has continued living with me.

Now space has become an issue, so need a new place to live, IF mum stays with me (otherwise could manage where I currently live).

I suggested to my siblings that either I buy a bigger house, and they contribute each month (due to increased costs - higher mortgage, bills, council tax, etc.) or someone else take mum.

Context:
Sister 1 - 5 bed house (SE) - 2 kids
Bro 1 - 4 bed house (SE) - no kids
Sis 2 - 3 bed house (near me) - no kids

Everyone (apparently) cares for mum, but reaction was they are happy to contribute each month towards house costs, but would like that money back when mum passes away, from me selling house (& downsizing).

My reaction was they are taking the 'mickey', as they want me to take all responsibility for looking after mum, even as her health gets worse (she already has a few issues) and are willing to 'loan' me some money to do this.

Appreciate perspectives are different, so would like to hear thoughts please.

Has your mum ever contributed? Has she saved you on childcare and/or paid rent in the past? It sounds like she was very early 50s when she moved in, which is more of a mutually beneficial houseshare than a caring situation, but also could have encouraged a dependance that your siblings now think is up to you to live with. Are you a single parent? I assumed you'd split up early in the marriage as you referred to moving in with 'me', but those children came from somewhere!

Your dm is the most unreasonable imo. Having dc doesn't mean they need to look after you- given the minimum age related medical grumbles you described she could live alone! .

People have different experiences of grandparents... a few assumptions here about her helping with childcare - none of my kids 4 grandparents were ever willing to do that!

In any case, this woman has only just retired, so why would she have been available for childcare?

And didn’t the OP say that none of the siblings had children anyway?!

Ah, sorry - checked. One does. But that’s 2 siblings without kids, so they don’t “owe her” for previous childcare.

If say just keep your siblings out of it, buy the bigger house yourself and maybe let your mum use her savings to contribute towards things like furnishing/decorating her room or maybe some of the costs associated with moving such as conveyancing, estate agents fees etc as in fairness you are only incurring those costs because of her living with you.

Keep it all separate from the "house purchase" that way no one has any claim on your house.

Then ask your mum for a monthly contribution towards living costs (food, heat, light etc) and if she can't afford that THEN ask your siblings for a contribution.

But make it clear, it is a contribution towards day to day living costs and NOT towards your mortgage.

Again, that way no one has claim to your house.

If further in the future your mum does need care, then you can look into things like state contributions or carers allowances etc etc.

I think this is a very complicated one too.

Would it be possible to buy a house that you can put a very separate and very saleable granny flat in (a basement flat with its own entry, or a flat above a garage etc) that you can sell when she passes? That way, you won’t have to sell your house and give them any profit, only the granny flat that you all paid for the build / conversion of.

I would absolutely be getting legal advice though.

Either that or I would advise keeping your siblings out of it altogether and get your DM to contribute.

@LastRoloIsMine

Buy the bigger house and charge your mum £300 pm rent. Totally acceptable as there is no reason she should live for free as it were.

Then when you sell the house if you sell the house you owe your siblings nothing.
They clearly don't want the emotional burden of caring for their mum so they don't want the financial burden either.

Stop being a matar op
If the bigger house will make you all happier including your mum then like any adult she needs to contribute.

It sounds from what you say that your mum would prefer to live with you or one of your siblings than live on her own. Is that right?

As lastroloismine suggests, it would be much better to move to a larger house and arrange with your mum that she will contribute to her rent. I am assuming she will have more money when she reaches state pension age than she is getting at the moment.

I think the plan of asking siblings for a contribution is absolutely fraught with problems, given that they do not already appear to feel that they have benefitted because you gave your mum a home. What happens if one decides not to pay? Or loses their job? Would any equity from the larger house be split equally 4 ways or would you get more? Morally, I'd expect you to get more but I know from other Mumsnet threads on inheritance that others would disagree.

If you do want to go ahead with your plan, your suggestion of £2-300 per month from your siblings is too much in terms of rent, food etc unless you live in London. It would be better to work out what your mum would be entitled to in terms of housing benefit, plus an amount for food. Then agree with your mum what would be a reasonable amount for her to contribute. That way you can legitimately make it clear to your siblings that their money is just going towards her rent but should not be regarded as equity.

Echo Margo's comments about how your mum must feel in all this.

Again thank you all for you helpful comments.

The current housing situation is no longer tenable, so need to find a solution. Not divorced (although I can be a pain is a** - my DW’s words :). My DW and I are quite aligned in our thinking (we had similar issues finding a solution for a lot older MIL…)

• Mum’s fairly independent ATM (doesn’t need any care), however we all recognise that she probably will do at some point in the medium-term due to her deteriorating eyesight.

• Mum doesn’t currently financially contribute, never needed her to as we’re fairly comfortable in our modest lifestyle. She does her fair share of housework and has helped with childcare in the past. Agree that mum needs to contribute if I move, as her pension will be a lot more than she currently gets.

• Also, none of us (siblings and DW) want her to live alone (although hadn’t previously considered sheltered accommodation). I guess she doesn’t ‘need’ to live with me, but old age can be a lonely place (I know maybe I’m trying to have my cake & eat it…)

• Like several contributors have suggested maybe it’s better if I don’t ask for financial contribution from siblings, seem fraught with potential legal issues.

• I guess my annoyance it’s easy to make grand gestures on birthdays or mothers’ day, but no one really wants to do the heavy lifting. I understand that, but £200-300 pm (combined from 3 siblings) is almost negligible for high earners, especially for someone you supposedly really ‘care’ about. But maybe nothing is black and white…

I think you need to separate the issue of over-crowding from your mother's future care.

If you wanted a financial contribution from your mother (or from your siblings for your mother) then this is a conversation that should have been had 15 years ago when she moved in with you.

However, you've been able to cope, financially, since then, so this isn't really the issue.

Your issues now are two-fold:

1. can you afford a bigger house to accommodate you all? If not, this isn't an issue for your siblings to be involved in, but it is possibly one that your mother could help with, by paying you monthly rent to help cover any shortfall in the new mortgage.

2. your mother may need help in the future with her medical/care needs. This is the conversation you need to have with your siblings, because it's not a cost you should be solely responsible for.

£100PCM each from high earners isn’t much for some you care about, no. But I don’t think they see it as giving it to their mum - but giving it to you. And I wouldn’t be committing £10 let alone £100 to a sibling.

Your mum has enough money. £8K until her pension (which you say is good) starts next year.

If you only need £200 a month extra, then take it from your mum. Much simpler, and fairer.

What is the money for exactly? Is it for your house or your mother's care? That's where the complication and resentment lies. And are you expecting a lump sum up front for a house purchase, because £300pm isn't increasing your purchase contribution anytime soon. Your suggestion is complicated. And why £300 - how have you come to that sum?

Also is your mother happy with the idea of receiving an income from her children, has she participated in the conversation at all? She comes across as quite the victim, but then you also say that she's perfectly healthy and sound of mind.

It seems like you want her to live in your home which is great, personally I'd struggle not to resent my Disney siblings for being so hands off and petty. Your DM definitely doesn't have the savings to afford later life care or assisted living without a group financial contribution and physical effort - so quite frankly they'd be in a much worse situation without you offering your home.

Have you laid out the the sums for them as to how you got to that figure and what the alternatives without your home as an option would look like?

Once something is the norm, it's very easy for outsiders to become comfortably adjusted to it and take things for granted. Equally as you've said you have benefitted in some ways (childcare etc.) by having her living with you.

I say all this but I can be petty AF, if things turned nasty it wouldn't be above me to suggest you invoice your brother for overdue rent