HELP! No income since March

[Jux]

Our basement was converted into a kind of granny flat with a connecting internal door to the rest of the house (our home); it has its own front door and separate address (the number with an 'a' added), but the utilities are not and cannot be separated.

We therefore charge tenants a combined rent which includes a certain amount for gas/elec/water, leaving them to pay their own Council Tax.

If they don't pay their rent, then we can't pay the joint utility bills.

The couple in there since before Christmas are elderly, one is retired the other was working but was sacked just after lockdown came about, which made it hard for her to find another job. We suggested they claim UC and apparently they did apply but actually haven't been paid it yet.

In the meantime they can't pay us. We have been using credit cards to try to stay on top of bills but can't go on.

They paid £200 last week but will not come up to discuss the debts with us. We have asked them and get shrugs, or vagueness, or "oh, I didn't know about that....." when we tell them of another benefit they could perhaps claim.

We've run out suggestions now and we've run out of credit. We dropped in a letter 3 days ago stating the amount of the debt and asking them to come and talk to us (yet again!). They have so far gone out earlyish and driven off for the day not returning until late. They are clearly avoiding us.

We don't qualify for UC ourselves as we own a property in which we do not live, ie the basement flat.

Is there anything at all we can do? Is there any help for us? A mortgage moratorium is not helpful to us as we don't have a mortgage.

TIA

Waste of time speaking with CAB

Apply here today

www.gov.uk/universal-credit/how-to-claim

They will assess what can be claimed

Stop making assumptions & wait for a reply from DWP

Sounds like your dh could claim New style ESA rather than JSA. He would need a sick note and as above very easy to apply on Gov.UK site. Payment usually received within a couple of weeks.

Can you sell the basement flat?

@Sugar00

Can you sell the basement flat?

Not with joined utilities, I wouldn’t have thought. It won’t be considered a separate And self contained dwelling.

It's not a self-contained dwelling.

DH is looking into the ESA thing you said. Thanks.

Then you need to be clear with Universal credit whether it’s a dwelling and therefore not entitled.

Put in the claim

If your DH has paid enough National Insurance contributions recently, he should be eligible for Universal credit contributions job seekers for a certain time period

Turn your gas, electricity and water off.

Don’t do this. It’s illegal for starters.

You need to contact UC yourself. Fill in the form below, you’ll then be able to speak to them about the claim your tenant has made. As you they are in arrears a payment can be made direct to you.

www.gov.uk/government/publications/universal-credit-landlord-request-for-a-managed-payment-or-rent-arrears-deduction

Sorry final post. Is the basement flat on the same title? If so, then it should not be treated as though is a separate dwelling. You should not be paying separate council tax and UC should not be treating it a separate property.

@CornishTiger

Then you need to be clear with Universal credit whether it’s a dwelling and therefore not entitled.

That’s a good point. Do they count as tenants or lodgers? If they are lodgers is far easier to evict.

@SpaceRaiders

Turn your gas, electricity and water off.

Don’t do this. It’s illegal for starters.

What happens when they actually can't pay the utilities for 4 people?

spaceraiders thanks for the link, on the way there now.

Dh is adamant he isn't entitled to ESA as he isn't sick or disabled or anything like that. He's on the phone to DWP or maybe someone else chasing up carers allowance.

The eviction ban ended on Sunday. Serve them a section 8 on the grounds of rent arrears, its a two week notice period:
blog.openrent.co.uk/how-to-serve-a-section-21-and-section-8-notice-of-eviction-to-tenants/

@SpaceRaiders

Sorry final post. Is the basement flat on the same title? If so, then it should not be treated as though is a separate dwelling. You should not be paying separate council tax and UC should not be treating it a separate property.

spaceraiders please don't apologise, you are being incredibly helpful! You're all being helpful, thank you so much.

I am checking the Deeds (presume that's where it'll be), but from memory, no it's not separated from the house there.

I've no idea why we would have been worrying about the Council Tax - if they're lumped in with us it won't make a difference as we're paying the full amount anyway as there are two of us here (3 now dd's an adult, but she doesn't count yet as at Uni and is a student or something).

I think it's like that because we bought the house with tenants in the flat who'd been there a year or two and it was how the previous owner had it set up. We didn't want to get lumbered with their Council Tax which the previous owner said was why she had them separate.

I am going to look into it, but could you, or others on this thread, give me a heads up about things we might have to be careful of if we do change everything to lodger rather than tenant?

What happens when they actually can't pay the utilities for 4 people?

The courts do not mitigate for landlords who harass their tenants whatever the circumstances. There are legal rights and obligations on both sides. Credit card or loan to tide them over perhaps. This is part and parcel of being a landlord I’m afraid. A tenant can walk away from unpaid rent with very little consequences, leaving a landlord thousands in debt.

Op in basic terms a lodger is someone who rents a room and shares your living space. A tenant is someone who lives in a self contained space be it a granny annex or wing of a large house. So in this case tenancy laws will apply. Did you sign a contract?

www.lodgerlandlord.co.uk/2010/03/09/the-five-main-differences-between-a-lodger-and-a-tenant/

In any case the best bet really is sorting their claim via the form I linked or claiming UC yourself to tide you over. Clarify what your title deed says, you can show this to both UC and the council should you need to challenge whatever they say re your own claim. Contact your utilities/ council tax anyone who you owe money to and inform them of the issue, perhaps pay whatever you’re able to afford for the time being, because I fear this may not be a straight forward fix.

I’d also advise joining one of the Landlord associations, they provide free legal advise as part of their subs. And the free landlord facebook groups are normally also very informative if you need further help, there’s lots of other more experienced landlords who are always more than happy to help.

@WellIWasInTheNeighbourhoo

Whilst the ban has ended, you‘d still have to give tenants 6 months notice. Which really doesn’t help op in the interim.

Again I’d really advise getting professional help to look over your case because if you haven’t followed all the landlord safety requirements, right to rent etc you may find yourself in a bit of a bind!

Sargass0

HB can only be claimed if both of the couple are retirement age - this was changed as before they could apply for HB if only one was retirement age but changed to become both

They should though be claiming for council tax relief

UC is paid after 5 weeks - so something is not happening, they may not have put in a claim..?

DH has had an interesting time today, phoning many people as a result of a call from 'our man at the CAB'! It would seem a number of rules have been misapplied in various applications of ours - ie, the DWP are not supposed to take a couple of things into account when they decide on, say, Carers' Allowance.

So, there have been a number of those type of things which immediately made us both feel a lot better and dh got on the phone to DWP, also the local Council who made one of those type of mistakes too, and something is being amended at HMRC.

I have been spending time online at the Gov.uk site pursuing various angles, mostly culled from this thread (THANK YOU ALL VERY MUCH!) and have applied for the rent to be paid directly to us - which it can only be if they have been awarded UC....and therein lies a tale.

They have been defrauding everyone. It was discovered due to my application - which I made because SpaceRaidersmentioned it. THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU

@Jux

DH has had an interesting time today, phoning many people as a result of a call from 'our man at the CAB'! It would seem a number of rules have been misapplied in various applications of ours - ie, the DWP are not supposed to take a couple of things into account when they decide on, say, Carers' Allowance.

So, there have been a number of those type of things which immediately made us both feel a lot better and dh got on the phone to DWP, also the local Council who made one of those type of mistakes too, and something is being amended at HMRC.

I have been spending time online at the Gov.uk site pursuing various angles, mostly culled from this thread (THANK YOU ALL VERY MUCH!) and have applied for the rent to be paid directly to us - which it can only be if they have been awarded UC....and therein lies a tale.

They have been defrauding everyone. It was discovered due to my application - which I made because SpaceRaidersmentioned it. THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU

Glad you are finally managing to sort things out op.

As someone said above are they not just lodgers in the one room (so easy to evict)? Have they signed an assured shorthold tenancy? Do they have a lease or a licence? Also could they d o work for you in return for being let off some of the rent as being better than nothing eg they could clean your house or do DIY or do yo have a family member who might live to employ them part time and the money goes to the rent arrears?

I’m so so glad you’ve managed to get some advice! And uncover the fraud, something didn’t seem quite right. Hopefully you’re able to get some payments to tide you over whilst you serve them notice to vacate.

Xenia, no they're not lodgers. The flat is the basement with an internal - locked and bolted - connecting door, but they have their own front and back doors, there are no common living areas except possibly the garden. It's a proper self-contained flat with its own bathroom, kitchen, loo etc. I'm pretty sure the contract they've signed is an AST.

If they do stay for another 6m because we can't get them out sooner, then I hope the DWP will pay the HB part of UC directly to us but I doubt we'll ever get the arrears. I am sick to death of tenants now and don't want to continue renting it out at all. I shall investigate how to do that wrt CT.

SpaceRaiders again, thank you for your help!

You can apply for council tax reduction through your local council, google it for your area. I don't think you will get 100% rebate but will definitely have your bill significantly reduced just now.