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Original poster

Snidey parking ticket! How unfair is this? Can we do anything?

27 replies

bohemianbint · 25/09/2007 20:23

Get this; DP parked up in Stockport in February, bought a parking ticket and stuck it in the window.

When he got back he'd been given a penalty because the ticket had slipped from the window. He wrote and appealed as he did have a valid ticket, and included the ticket in the letter to prove it.

It took 9 months to get a reply to the letter, in which they said it was tough and we needed to pay even though we had bought a ticket. DP responded appealing again to say that it wasn't his fault that the glue on the back of the ticket was defective.

They have responded with a court summons, unless we pay £100.

Is it just me or is this really unfair? Is there anything we can do to get out of this as we are totally skint and it's not like we were parking without paying!

Any advice?

OP posts:
morningpaper · 25/09/2007 20:24

It's harsh but you are undoubtedly in the wrong I expect

You will have to pay I think

Original poster
bohemianbint · 25/09/2007 20:29

I dunno - am finding some interesting stuff about this here

OP posts:
BettySpaghetti · 25/09/2007 20:30

There have been a few cases that I've read on here where peoples tickets have fallen/blown over and they've got a fine (including me ) but most, if not all, have appealed successfully.

It does seem harsh that you've now got a court summons

LilyLoo · 25/09/2007 20:32

i wouldn't pay this can you not ring and speak to someone.
Surely they can't take 9 months to reply. I would really fight this.
This did happen to my mum a while ago and the ticket had dissapeared, we presumed it must have blown out of the window. However they checked the cctv and we were on it purchasing a ticket so they let us off.

moondog · 25/09/2007 20:32

Jeezus,that is well out of order.
Mean bastards.

ScoobyDooooo · 25/09/2007 20:33

How strange i have heard of this happening to many people and as long as they can show proof of there brought ticket then it gets dropped, i would try & write to someone about this it's wrong i think.

Original poster
bohemianbint · 25/09/2007 20:34

Check this out:

"Let?s examine the law that does cover the issuing of these invoices.

As I?ve stated earlier the PPC will base it?s claim on the driver having entered into a contract with them. Strictly speaking this is very much the case. Assuming the signage and notice to be sufficient then the driver accept the offer of parking by his actions and is implied to accept the terms and conditions of so doing.

You will have three co-mingling defences to reply on in this case.

Firstly and most simply ? contractual penalties. When you park in the car park and over-stay or misuse the facilities in some way you breach your contract with the land owner. The terms state you will not overstay or misuse the facilities, these are terms on which your contract for parking is based, thus when you do something contrary to these terms you breach the contract. The common law holds that the remedy for breach of contract is damages. Therefore the land owner is entitled to damages covering the costs incurred as a result of your breaching the contract.

Let us examine this ? if you over-stay at a car park then the land owner loses revenue. Thus if parking is £1 an hour and you overstay by an hour then the damage is £1. Any company may argue that you are liable for the time of any attendant who may be involved in the issuing of an invoice. This is nonsense. The fact is that the PPC employ staff to be at the car park for all eventualities. Their job description will involve the issuing and preparation of these invoices, therefore to imply that damages are incurred by the involvement of an employee hired for this express purpose is a quite ridiculous prospect and should be sternly resisted (particularly when the cost of one of these invoices is more than the attendant is paid per day). Alternatively if you park incorrectly and use two bays I would suggest that in all reality the most that could be said to be valid damages is the value of the spaces you have used (so if you obscure a second space then double the cost of your parking). So as you can see actual damages in these cases will be absolutely minimal. Why, therefore, do the PPCs seek to charge the users of the car parks figures like £50 and £70? Simply because people do not know any better than to pay. The principle surrounding this is very similar to that surrounding bank charges. Banks cannot charge their customers extortionate rates for going over their overdraft limits (breaching their contract). The law is exactly the same for Private Parking Companies. Thus should matters progress with the parking company you should use this as the cornerstone of your defence."

Surely, as we didn't breach the contract and didn't overstay the time, we aren't liable to pay any "damages" at all?

Are private parking companies like Excel who gave us the ticket, basically unlawful charging people like the banks who are now havign to pay back the charges they have taken from people?

Interesting.

OP posts:
Original poster
bohemianbint · 25/09/2007 20:37

how great is this guy:

"It is most important that you know your rights. Please don?t use this guide as a ?be all and end all? to the subject. Use it as your starting point. Read around these topics and get to know the law. This is good consumer law for today?s generation and will serve you well in other aspects of your life. Being willing to speak out and stand up to corporate bullies will set you in good stead for the rest of your life.

The important thing to remember is that you don?t have to help these bloodsuckers to build a case against you. Resist it at every step. The law?s presumption is of innocence and that is for good reason. It protects the individual from the imbalanced power of the many. The PPC must prove your liability. 99 times out of 100 they simply can?t and so you?re safe. In the one instance they may be able to develop a prima facie case you will have three good defences. Rely on these. Become familiar with them and their workings.

Don?t be afraid to contact and request the assistance of the following-

The Police

Trading Standards

The Office of Fair Trading

These organisations were created to protect you and your rights. They may be reluctant to undertake what they regard as a trifling or minor matter but don?t accept that. Demand their assistance. Your council tax, income tax and every other tax the good people of the UK are fleeced for pays for this protection. You have earnt it.

I have NEVER heard of a case like this making it to court. I suspect PPCs don?t sue their victims, and they are victims, because they know the merits of their case are non existent."

OP posts:
pinkbubble · 25/09/2007 20:37

This has happened to me twice!. Ticket fell off the window extra, I appealed and they waived it, could not believe my luck, thought I would the first time but to be let off the second time, I was amazed! Stick to your guns, if it happens in some towns then it should happen everywhere!

LittleBella · 25/09/2007 20:38

Interesting, I wonder how this sort of policy fits in with "British values" that Gordon Brown was going on about?

such as fairness and common sense?

I got a ticket (£40) from Westminster because I bought a ticket (£12) from a machine, however, the space I was parked in, only accepted mobile phone parking. Well how did I know that? It wasn't obvious, it wasn't clear. I phoned them up at the time to tell them their machine was broken and they didn't tell me it was a mobile phone parking only machine. (You now have to have a mobile phone to park in Henrietta Street in London. Eh?)

I'm still debating whether to pay it or let them take me to court.

Original poster
bohemianbint · 25/09/2007 20:42

Little Bella - DON'T PAY! Looks like from what I've read these companies are having a laugh. If you check out the link I posted, if they have not got clear and visible signs setting out the terms of the "contract" you enter into by parking there then they haven't got a leg to stand on.

This has got me really annoyed. How dare these companies skank people out of millions of pounds every year?!

OP posts:
saltire · 25/09/2007 20:45

Sorry, being thick here but what on earth is mobile phone parking?

LittleBella · 25/09/2007 20:48

TBH Saltire I'm still not sure.

I think you have to ring up and give some dodgy bloke at the end of the line your credit card details. And then trust him to tell wardens you've paid.

Attractive option, isn't it?

(I could be lying, I'm just surmising...)

Flibbertyjibbet · 25/09/2007 20:54

This happened to me, in Bury. I appealed with a copy of the actual ticket which displayed the time of the parking, and the fine was waived.
It was an extremely hot day and the sticker had just slid off the windscreen.
Did you keep a copy of the ticket?
you need to stop writing to the people you have been writing to and go straight to the head of council dept that is responsible for outsourcing parking and rant on about how outrageous this is.
And bend your councillors ear.

Tinker · 25/09/2007 20:55

Not read thread but scrolled down to see if Stockport Lots of letters in local press about this. Greedy barstards

whomovedmychocolate · 25/09/2007 20:58

BB - I recall from the last time this happened to me that the company has six month from the date of issue to take you to court and if they don't they can go whistle.

Go to court, state your case and watch the judge tell them to fark off (and charge them costs too).

NB yes contact the council in the district your DP parked in, trading standards etc.

MrsBadger · 25/09/2007 20:59

I do mobile phone parking all the time at the station.
System is all automated, no numpty on the other end.
The first time you do it you give the carpark code (on big sign) your car make, colour and registration and a credit card number, but every subsequent time it recognises the phone no. you are calling from and says 'would you like to park your blue Astra at Didcot Parkway for one day?' or whatever you did before, so you just hit 1 for yes and dash for the train.
The wardens have pda thingies where they type in the registration and it tells the if you've paid.

Tinker · 25/09/2007 20:59

Stockport Times Mostly refers to disabled drivers but this is a Big Issue in Stockport

chocolatekimmy · 25/09/2007 21:02

Haven't read the thread but I think the rule is that not only do you have to pay for a ticket but you also have to display it correctly. That is your responsibility.

Mine was upside down once and I appealed and they let me off. They returned copies of digital photo's showing it upside down on the dash. I think I was lucky.

Does seem a bit harsh that they took so long, I would fight the amount if you appealed in the correct time.

mustrunmore · 25/09/2007 21:02

That all sounds a bit 1984 to me(mobile phone thing)

My Dad got a parking ticket here in London; he was in the wrong. But it had the pay within xxx days to get 50% reduction in the fine. He sent payment immediately, but it was xmas hols and there was no one ther to open the mail; when they returned to work, it took them just a bit longer than the max time period to catch up with their stuff, so they wouldn't let him have the 50% off

LittleBella · 25/09/2007 21:05

hmm, sounds easy enough Mrs B.

Pity Westminster Council don't say on their machines that you cannot park in this street unless you do mobile phone parking.

Original poster
bohemianbint · 25/09/2007 22:34

Oooh, cheers for the link Tinker. That's exactly where it happened...

OP posts:
Bounder · 26/09/2007 14:16

Exactly the same thing happened to me 2 years ago in a council car park, I wrote the same day enclosing a copy of the valid ticket, kept the original.
They still havent replied so I guess theyve written it off.
At the time I was prepared to go to court and argue it out....but whther it would have seemed worth losing a day of work if it had come to that Im not sure. Id be tempted to call their bluff.

OrmIrian · 26/09/2007 14:19

I successfully appealed in this very situation. Seems very harsh if you can prove that you had a valid ticket. However it does usually state clearly that you have to clearly display the thing.

lemonaid · 26/09/2007 14:24

BUT if you did stick it to your window properly and then it fell off then you have displayed it properly, they just issued you with a defective ticket. So it should be your word against theirs (as to whether you did originally stick it in the window), with the presumption of innocence working in your favour.