maintenance advice please

[thelistener]

I have been furloughed, DH is still working albeit reduced hours and ExH has apparently been laid off! So say before the furlough system was put into place. And he has informed me that for the foreseeable future there will be no maintenance. Its always been a private arrangement and I realise lots of people are in the same boat but what now?

I'm not sure if this helps but my sister works in payroll and some of their staff have had to be furloughed as they cannot do their job whilst shut down. One of the men had to inform child maintenance and was told he would still need to pay his full agreed payment so maintenance still stands. But that is through the CMS and he will be getting 80 percent wages.
A private arrangement and no wages at all could very well mean no maintenance can be paid, but would be building up arrears? Sorry if I am wrong

If he's got no earnings he can't pay you CM. If he claims benefits then you are able to have a small amount of that.

@thelistener I'm interested to know the latest on your situation as I'm in the same boat.

I've been furloughed too and my ex partner has contacted me (on the day he was due to transfer maintenance for our ds) to say that he has not been working for the last 3 weeks, therefore has contacted the CMS and is waiting for them to advise him of the new amount to send.

I use the payment he makes obviously for our ds but also towards my rent which was due yesterday. I am now short to pay my rent.

Are the ex's supposed to pay the amount as per the annual review until told otherwise by CMS?

My ex partner is offering to send me half. I have asked him to send whatever he can but if he is infact meant to still pay me the same amount as per the agreement, as if so this is what I want to go back and say to him.

Hope someone can help.

@SpideyMom

Hi there, please can you reiterate what your sister that works in payroll was told in that...
Did the employee tell her that after contacting the CMS?,
or did she contact the CMS on their behalf as there's a deduction from earning order in place?
I'm really interested to know the facts as I'm currently discussing this matter with my ex partner and the CMS calculate the amount for us annually in November and we use a direct pay agreement.
Thank you in advance

Hi @mummytippy

I will have to check with her however my case is under the cms too. Via a deduction of earnings order. When I logged in the other day there was a message obviously for the paying parent that if their income falls below a certain percentage their payments will be recalculated meaning that payment still due. My DS is completely absent by his own choice but he works for a council run business which I understand are still receiving full pay or at least 80 percent furlough as its had to close. The percentage it has to fall I believe was 25% or 30%. I know it was higher than the 20% furlough amount.

This is obviously for someone who will still be receiving pay. For those who are earning nothing, nothing can be paid right now. I suppose those who pay direct have a way of exploiting things a bit at the moment by saying they cant pay but mine has never been direct as he refused to pay me.
Hope this makes sense

Thanks @SpideyMom I would appreciate you asking your sister.

I'm sorry you're in a similar position. It's such a unique time isn't it and my ex has been vague to say the least in saying 'not working' instead of furloughed.

When I looked at the CMS website it says the changes to report are as follows... I've copied and pasted it...

If your circumstances have changed for one of the following reasons, call us straightaway. We can only deal with these changes if you report them by phone so please do not report them online.

• If you have lost your job

• If you are temporarily receiving no income while you are self-isolating during the outbreak of Coronavirus

• If you are temporarily receiving statutory sick pay during the outbreak of Coronavirus

• If child maintenance should no longer be paid because of a change in circumstances

• If you are adopting a child

• If you are reporting a bereavement

We cannot accept details of any other changes by phone. You can report them by registering or logging into your self-service account instead. Visit www.gov.uk/coronavirus for the latest advice about Coronavirus.

From the reasons listed above, none of these seem to apply to people who've been furloughed... my ex works as a salesman so I imagine he has a basic and then earns commission. All I can assume is he'll have been furloughed on his basic. The frustrating thing is I can only take his word for this.

I'll await to hear what your sister knows. Thank you again

Under normal circumstances, cms won't review the payments unless they have varied by 25%.

Obviously if furloughed this is under that threshold.

However, with informal arrangements, they can stop paying as and when they decide. And I don't really see how a full payment can be expected unless the other parent has extensive savings or was on such a high income that they would have a good buffer or low outgoings.

Thanks @SoloMummy

Our arrangement is calculated by the CMS but they do not collect the money and send to me, he pays me direct so it's not an informal arrangement but the payment method is.

He is a salesman and earns commission on top of a basic flat wage. I'm assuming that as he's been furloughed on basic pay (as can't earn commission) his wage will have fallen below the 25% rule for recalculating.

My question is should he still endeavour to pay the usual amount until told otherwise by the CMS?

@mummytippy
If he can, yes he should. That would be usual expectation.
But the situation is so changeable and sudden, this just may not be practical. Especially given that he presumably has taken a real hit to his income with no commission and only 80% of his basic if furloughed, 0% if redundant and not having been there long enough for redundancy.
Given there is also a 5 week lead in time for universal credit which is only about £250 if he isn't claiming housing benefit, I think that as difficult as it is, you may well have to accept the hit, as you'd only be entitled to £7 if he claims uc.

@mummytippy she said as he is still getting 80 percent pay he is still expected to pay his usual amount according to the CMS. Variations only apply after 25 or 30 percent, I cant remember which it said and the message has now been removed but I remember thinking it should still be paid as normal. But in my case his employer barely pays it anyway so I dont hold out much hope.

In terms of your ex if he has been furloughed it will be on his basic pay only. He will be expected to still meet his normal payment however as he pays you direct, he can get around this in which case you would need to contact the CMS, however its tricky as his basic may well be much less than what he is used to picking up with commission so he will be more than 20 percent down a month to start.

I dont blame you for worrying. Unfortunately I rely on the CMS payment and that was my biggest mistake as for the last 2 years it's been missed loads and his built up lots of arrears and that via a deduction of earnings order.

Bare in mind when it comes to annual review, depending on how much commission he can make, say he has to have 3 months off and earns 2000 a month commission (it's only an example,and an easy figure), then thats £6000 less on his annual earnings and could mean you receive lower payments for next year.

Do you get on? Are you able to discuss things with him at all?

Hi @SpideyMom

Thanks so much for coming back to me I really appreciate it.
I'm sorry you're in the situation you are with your ex... I thought that the employer had to take the deduction of earnings (by law) to ensure you get the maintenance and arrears.

As for my ex, I'm pretty certain his income will have dropped more than 25% as he will more than likely just be getting 80% of his basic pay which is probably between 200-250 per week... and the CMS have worked the current annual review on 750.00 per week, but I honestly don't know what his basic pay is.

He does have a younger child too he also has to pay maintenance towards. According to the CMS, he pays both me and the other mother the same amount.

Another thing I was wondering is as he's paid a month in hand and was furloughed from 24/3, and his payment to me is supposed to be the 7th of each month... it means he's worked 2/3 of the month so could at the very least pay 2/3 of the amount.

We don't really get on tbh and I have to handle him with 'kid gloves' as he was very controlling and that's why I ended the relationship. After we split he took me to family court which aside from mentally scaring our child and myself, it wiped me out financially.

I owe him nothing and that is why now I would love to know exactly where I stand. Interesting you say if he receives UC he would only have to pay 7.00.

Also, recently he hasn't been having our ds EOW. It has dropped to once a month and I was just about to contact the CMS to advise them of that as that will also come into a calculation won't it. They have it recorded (have a copy of the court order) that our ds stays 2 nights EOW and half of the school holidays where now our ds has only been 3 times since Christmas. He is also meant to pay our ds 2.00 per week pocket money but hasn't since last September so therefore currently owes our ds 62.00

If theres a court order then its unlikely it will get reduced unless this gets changed. Crap I know.

At absolute best you'd get £100 a month , most likely a lot less.

I would call cms. I imagine this will become arrears that will never actually get cleared.

Morning. Yes I thought too that by law they had to pay it. But in reality that isnt what has happened for us. They kept using the excuse they had paid it into the wrong account for 3 and 4 months at a time before they realised. And this reason was accepted every time though they have done it now 5 times over the last 2 years. The one month I only got 4.99 which although his payment is relatively low, it's not only 4.99 a month! I feel pretty powerless so I've had to learn to live without it and see it as a bonus if it gets paid. We have no social life and live very basic as I have no other options. Arrears are building on the account but as another poster has said they are unlikely to get cleared.

In terms of how many nights he has his child I've never had that side of things as my ex never ever has so I dont know what the thresholds are unfortunately.

It's a hard one really as he has reasons to not be able to meet his normal payment. I know that doesnt help you and it is always expected that he meets his normal payments but no one could have predicted this happening. Hopefully your landlord is kind when it comes to rent at the moment as alot of peoples income has dropped significantly.

@SpideyMom

I think that is absolutely terrible that that reason was accepted by the CMS from the employer! and the fact they've done it on more than one occasion. I'd be furious. Could you not complain to a higher department as it does truly make an ass out of the system. It sounds to me like the employer may have cash flow problems and that they may have actually deducted it from you ex put not paid it across?!

The number of nights threshold for yourself would mean you are entitled to the maximum amount as your ex does not have your dc at all.

I think it's terrible you've felt you've had to tell yourself to live without this money. The service is failing you and that is awful

In my case my ex used to pay me double what he does now but then he had a child with his ex so it reduced. They eventually split up (has a 4 yo with her) so the amount then halved as he has to pay us both the same amount.

With regard to my landlord, I have the majority of my rent payment but it is short by the maintenance amount. I have applied for an advance via Universal Credit but as I did it on Friday (B Hol) I will receive it on 16/4. The Job Centre had originally told me that I could apply for a same day payment (which I did as soon as my ex text me) but due to the increased demand that is now not the case... 3 working days is now the fastest it can be sent. In an ideal world I would like to pay my rent tomorrow as it's the first working day after the bank holiday weekend.

@SoloMummy

Thanks, I plan to phone the CMS tomorrow.
I think I should as my circumstances have also changed
and as the receiving parent I think they need to know this.

In the meantime, I'm going to text my ex back and ask him to try to pay the existing amount as he's paid a month in hand (so his last pay cheque won't have been far from his usual pay). I'm thinking I'm going to say that I've read via CMS online what @SpideyMom has said in that he should do that until advised of a different recalculated amount.

To be honest, it is what he would say to me if roles were reversed and from where I'm standing (if in his shoes) I would value child support as important as paying your rent if not more so.

The OP said the ex has been laid off though not furloughed.

If the ex has no income and can't pay as it is a private arrangement there seems little point applying to the CMS yet until he has some form of income but I assume once he did have he may be willing to restart the payments at some level anyway.

@SeasonFinale

Yes they did but emphasis was on the word 'apparently' and this is the problem as the receiving parent is having to take their word for it.

Also many laid of workers have now in fact been taken back on and furloughed on 80% as it's no skin off the nose of the employer to do so. This was a matter Martin Lewis raised.

I'm not sure if the OP @thelistener is coming back to the post?

I really dont understand the CMS system.
My ex has so much arrears on our account. Last year payments were done on a round figure of earnings and when annual review was done the earnings for that year were higher. Does anyone know how this works? Do they then recoup during the next year to reflect higher earnings in previous year when less maintenance was paid?
I currently get £20.00 a month, luckily I work 2 jobs in NHS to make ends meet but it is bloody tough going sometimes.

I agree. The CMS is a joke. At my annual review, despite alot of arrears his payments were reduced. So I complained as was given no explanation. Part way through the year he declared a new child, so effectively he was chipping away at arrears from that point. However they have no duty to inform you and recalculate until the review. So for example a new child can be declared a month after the annual review but they wont recalculate until the following year so it will work out you've been overpaid. My account is still in arrears and likely always will be.

I havent had the best experience of them and everyone is entitled to their opinion but I strongly feel that have sided with the NRP in my case. I have made numerous complaints, involved my MP nearly as many times. I've been told they almost never take things to court. That they have to act on good faith that payment will come in. The last woman I spoke to was actually lovely. And explained, and understood my frustration. Basically every incident is treated as a new incident. It doesnt matter if its reoccurring. Once its closed its closed, so if it happens again it starts the long process again and believe me it is long!

My sons dad left me with all his debts and there was alot. Nearly double my annual salary. It was all in my name so legally I had no leg to stand on. Hence why maintenance is so relied upon. When it started not coming in our struggles only became worse. And as I say now I have to view it as a bonus. When it does get paid it's in bits and for some reason is paid to me twice a month (different amounts but never total what should be paid). I was told this is an error so the system will never know again if a payment gets missed as their is not longer a due by date as I'm being sent money twice a month. So if its missed it wont get flagged. It's a shocking system.

I am yet to see what's happening this month so we will see. I know he works for a massive council run employer so am unsure if they get full pay or furlough.

With everything going on I feel for both parties, but I really do feel for the resident parent when they have a poor or no relationship with the ex, and a direct agreement, as the NRP can easily adjust or refuse payments themselves. I understand that that if payment isnt paid correctly you need to inform the CMS. But it's likely it will just build up arrears

Morning. Our doctors aren't seeing anyone, including children. So I am awaiting a callback

Sorry wrong thread

@SpideyMom

The CMS certainly do make you wonder and if it makes you feel any better... my ex left me with lots of debts too... and in my name so as you say... no leg to stand on. I'm still paying some of them now too over 10 years on! and then he took me to family court in 2014 which lasted 2 years and that just finished me off financially.

I'm not surprised you wrote to your MP, I'm only sorry it doesn't seem to have helped you. I am truly sorry that you have been so let down.

I've started a new thread regarding the CMS and Furloughing.

After watching Martin Lewis last night a car salesman rang in and was told he should be paid he 'usual' wage therefore including his average commission amount. Interesting... and Googled it too... very interesting and now even more unsure what to believe!

Why don’t these men give women notice how can they say on the day no money. Seriously that’s disgusting

@FabbyChix Thanks for your comment.
I know... sad thing is I knew it would be the case and it was actually
3 days after it was due I got the message. He doesn't work the same way as me that's for sure. Still haven't had a reply as to the amount he can pay going forwards.