Could do with a bit of advice - pub built a smoking shelter right on to our back garden - not sure what to do....

[bozza]

We have lived in our new build house on a small cul-de-sac for seven years without any problem. The house has a garden of about 10 metres in length which slopes uphill and backs on to the premises of one of the village pubs but there is a wall topped by a high fence with a tree and shrub border on our side. This has been fine. There has bee a bit of noise - odd car door slamming, noise of beer barrels being delivered in the morning, distant strains of kareoke etc but nothing that we can't cope with.

However about a month ago (just before we went on holiday for a fortnight) the pub contructed a smoking shelter in what was the private back garden. Basically they changed a window into a door and built a veranda with decking and a clear perspex roof. This is probably about 3m from our boundary.

The smoke does not drift over but the noise does! There is noise of talking (loud and drunken) and laughing and also extra noise from the pub every time the door is opened. So far we have coped by having music on when reading etc in bed and by both wearing ear plugs although the first Friday night it kept me awake for about 3 hours. But we have to keep the windows closed on our and DD's bedrooms (both at the back of the house). Also bear in mind because of the slope the shelter is nearer the level of upstairs windows than it would be on flat ground.

What course of action would you recommend. And does anyone know if it is legal to change the use of a private garden to a beer garden?

I feel very agrieved that banning smoking in public places is having such an adverse affect on our family when neither DH nor I have ever smoked a cigarette in our lives.

Actually fio I don't mind the hymns when I am in the garden of a Sunday morning. And since being a Mum the church bells no longer wake me up at 9.15 am. I don't even mind the faint tones of "I will survive" on the karaoke. I do mind people having inappropriate conversations when my children are playing and raucous laughter etc when I am trying to sleep.

Blu I am not sure where to go next. The smoking shelter is in daily use but surely shouldn't be. Also they have hung a tarpaulin down one side - the side not protected by the pub walls (remember the L shape) or our fence. Surely this is also illegal? I wondered about keeping a diary.

I'm not an expert on this, but I think that if they have given notice that they intend to appeal, that Enforcement will not happen until after the appeal. If the appeal is turned down the only next step is a public enquiry, I think, and it's unlikely that they would go that far.
Yes, keep a diary, take pics of the tarpaulin, take pics of hordes of people spilling out, and if the noise is actually disturbing you, make as many complaints as you like to the Noise people. I would say that the more complaining that goes on between now and the appeal, the better! Otherwise the pub could argue that neighbours have come accustomed to it or something. Or that there is only noise in the warm months and people hardly go out in winter.

Thanks for the advice blu. I will do as you say. We have not yet complained to the noise people because we thought the best initial steps involved sorting out the planning side. But will heed what you say.

Fio and for you. I am seriously annoyed that the Govt appears not to have thought through the implications of this smoking ban. For people like us (and I assume you are similar) who rarely went into smoky places in the past, it has had a negative impact overall. DH has even had to stick a no smoking sign in his car.

It might be as well to copy noise complaints to the planning dept...there would be no guarantee in my borough that inter-departmental communication would work!!

I know fio and they were singing on new years eve (well actually, well into new years day). And then they were back there at about 6 on NYD. I mean, who goes to the pub on NYD. I am hoping the shelter issue will be sorted by summer. Although of course then they will all be out the front when people are walking past - and it is not far from the school. Trouble with village life....

Radio-2
JV about to discuss this very thing. Landlady of a pub got fined £3K due to neighbours complaining about outside smokers making too much noise - could go bankrupt because of it?..might be worth a listen?

I would also complain to the smoking ban people - this shelter sounds too emclosed to be allowed. If enforcement people catch people smoking it will be instant fines which I think could be effective.

If the gaps in the walls of the shelter are less than the enclosed bits (inc tarpaulin) then its illegal.

I think you should attack on 2 fronts simultaneously, the planning issues and contact the Environmental Health Dept at your council re. the noise.
Good luck!

Well I think the tarpaulin does make it illegal but otherwise it is fine - the planning officer told DH as much. He said it fitted with the legal requirements but it was a question as to whether it was appropriately located.

Well, it turned out that the Dorset landlady in question not only had to pay the local council £3K, she had to shell out £800 damages to each neighbour that complained.

This was all due to the noise abatement and unsocial behaviour act.
Apparently it hasn?t been updated to take in to account the non-smoking ban (currently restricted to what happens INSIDE the premises ? not outside)?.better be quick though cos this is one ?loop hole? that?s bound to be plugged soon??..unless all the local council?s get on the band wagon and see it as an easy buck of course