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MLM Bot Watch 53: The saga continues...

983 replies

GoldenKelpie · 28/08/2019 08:00

Starting a new thread on all things MLM!

OP posts:
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19
DoraExplorer99 · 15/09/2019 21:34

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

BishBashBot · 16/09/2019 02:05

Any money ANYONE makes is always at a cost, topped up at least with personal use

This was definitely not true in my case. Is it fair to admit that what you experienced may not be the case for everyone?

All new friends in my upline vanished when I left Forever.

Some did for me too, but I wasn't that close to them in the first place. The remaining ones that I valued as a friend, I still speak to occasionally now. I also met a very close friend of mine through FL, although she has since left the business too.

There were times in Forever I felt amazing and powerful but then guilty at the juggling act I had to do with my family. I convinced myself it would be worth it, but it wasn't was it?

In my current business - which BTW I built from scratch and has nothing to do with MLM, products or recruitment - I still have to juggle my business around my children. I still have mum guilt. I still have to try work out a good personal/work/family life because I work from my home and my home is my office.

I see that struggle for Dad's too, not just Mum's, and in every entrepreneur, freelance, home-based, start-up business.

In fact, even when I was a single mum and working a 9-5, I still faced those struggles. I missed out more on my kids lives when I was working in an office 9-5, than I have done working from home.

Yet for me, it totally was worth it. I still to this day make some sacrifices, but my children have a fantastic life and it's a far cry from where I used to be, struggling to make ends meet.

BishBashBot · 16/09/2019 02:11

BBB I'm fairly sure I know who you are. If you're who I think you are then you had a real knack for recruitment but it took all your time and damaged your relationships with friends, family and husband.

No, I'm not. I have never been married or have a partner. It also didn't damage any relationships.

The only way to make money is in recruiting others.

This is false, you can make a good income just retailing the products.

In regards to thousands of pounds, yes you need to recruit. But not everyone wants to make that much money.

BishBashBot · 16/09/2019 03:29

thanks for sharing your thread. I'm just curious about who's downline you were in

You're welcome. Judging by @ReformedBot's AMA thread - I was in the same team as her.

Which I find quite interesting - that we had complete opposite experiences.

I'm pretty sure I know who ReformedBot is, and it's one of the reasons that I created the AMA thread, after coming across this forum.

I felt that a 2 year stint of abusing her uplines on this forum was quite literally one-sided and you can't tar everyone with the same brush or state that EVERYONE experienced the same as yourself.

In my experience, this was certainly not the case. That needs to be accepted.

I'm sorry that ReformedBot felt that she needed to take out finance and loans to fund her business. I personally don't know of anyone else that has done this and I find it quite sad that she felt resorted to do this.

The term "fake it till you make it" I believe has been taken in the wrong way for some. They took that term quite literally.

The term is meant to be about confidence. An emotional state. Self belief - believing in your own capabilities, even when you're unsure.

This is a practice that many people use in many different businesses - and something I was also taught at University for tactics when going for a job interview. Faking confidence when you're actually ridden with anxiety inside.

It is not telling the world that you're getting Gucci and LV bags every weekend, when you’re not.

It's really important to note that this was never ever coached. ReformedBot, can you confirm that an upline never told you to lie and fake things that weren't true?

In my own team there was 1 lady (and also another lady sideline to me) who did post a few absurd posts that I knew were not true.

I found this very shocking. I immediately screenshotted their post and sent it them privately, saying that they needed to take it down and not lie about having things that aren’t true.

I do wonder what on earth they were thinking. They were both Supervisors and shortly quit after a few months.

In my belief, the top bots that made the money are not the ones who lied about stuff they had, when they didn’t. They did have the fancy cars and houses. I went to these houses and I have driven in their cars.

In my experience, it's the lower rank bots that lied the most. The ones who made it their decision to deceive and lie about things they didn’t have, to try and get to the top quicker (which doesn't work).

I have never seen a training or heard of any top bot coach that has told a rep to lie about what they have or to purchase things on finance.

There would be complete outrage in the FB groups if they had.

Although I owe them nothing, my uplines were all people that you bash a lot in these threads. Yes I am the first to admit that 2 of those uplines were fake - but, not everyone is malicious as you make out.

I've also read a few comments that are completely false, and that I know for a fact they are not true.

Just my insight anyway.

CodenameVillanelle · 16/09/2019 05:19

This is false, you can make a good income just retailing the products.

In regards to thousands of pounds, yes you need to recruit. But not everyone wants to make that much money.

This is such disingenuous bollocks! To make even a few £100 of profit a month retailing they would need to be 'working' far more than 40 hours a week grafting. It's literally impossible to make any money worth having on retail alone. This. Is. Not. A. Business.

BishBashBot · 16/09/2019 05:33

It's literally impossible to make any money worth having on retail alone

I feel like I'm going round in circles here. I know for a fact that it can happen, I have seen it with my own eyes.

Can I ask, are you an ex bot?

CheekySmile · 16/09/2019 08:00

@CodenameVillanelle Can you please state what you consider to be a ‘good income’ as that’s such a vague phrase and would mean wildly different amounts to people.

CodenameVillanelle · 16/09/2019 08:07

A good income would be more than minimum wage for the hours you work.
To make sales of retail product bots have to be on social media several hours of every day. They also have to to fairs and parties (which incur significant costs). They will be putting in many hours to get a few quid profit. Even if this is only average 10 hours per week they would still need to make £100 per week profit to be making a living wage rate off that which would mean shifting what? £500 of product a week minimum? Who can sell that much product on 10 hours work? Nobody. Especially when the product is so overpriced.

CodenameVillanelle · 16/09/2019 08:12

@BishBashBot no I'm not a bot. We know that people lie and inflate their income in MLMs, it's literally part of the 'business model' (plenty of ex bots have attested to this; even if you didn't) so I take people saying they made a good wage on retail with a bucket of salt. I simply don't see how it's possible.
FL products are priced as a luxury brand but they are not. The packaging is cheap and the products are standard. Toothpaste is what £13? Sun cream at £20, even aloe gloop can be bought for £4 in health shops and FL sell it for £20+
Delivery is slow and ordering is cumbersome. Why would people choose to shop FL products when they can buy the same quality far cheaper at Tesco, or they can spend the same money on luxury brands and have next day delivery from amazon?
You're shilling a fake product in a pyramid scheme.

fromdownwest · 16/09/2019 09:28

@BishBashBot - you have driven in the cars and visited the homes of these people, therefore they must be making good money.

Can you explain why they have all taken HUGE directors loans, and or have their companies in liquidation due to being unable to pay back said loans. Is this Jorge very definition of ‘fake it until you make it’. Borrow money from your company to fund a lavish lifestyle on the assumption that you will make it back In the future?

I do understand that you are only going on what you have seen, and been told. However, if you take a step back and look at the actual numbers only 2 of the bots are actually solvent.

So to state that people are earning good money is a false statement, if I was earning 6 figures, my accountant would not be setting up a directors loan facility.

MLMsuperfan · 16/09/2019 09:48

"I have seen it with my own eyes"

But did you? "Fake it till you make it" is part of the training. Sometimes hubby's inheritance pays for the white rangey - or the deposit on its lease.

Spongebobette · 16/09/2019 11:41

If FL were presented simply as an opportunity to make a little bit of pocket money by selling the products to friends and family, that would be believable.

But it’s not. It’s presented as a life changing opportunity which will allow you to sack your boss, create a legacy income and buy a white Range Rover. If only you believe hard enough and have a goal board with those things on.

And I just don’t believe you can make a living wage by retailing the products. They are overpriced.

Sales to friends and family are likely to be pity purchases mostly; they are trying to support your ‘business’

Ref0rmedB0t · 16/09/2019 13:10

@BishBashBot
This was definitely not true in my case. Is it fair to admit that what you experienced may not be the case for everyone?

Absolutely, but upline, downline, sideline everyone was encouraged to be a 'product of the product' with the coaching being that to get Gel drinkers you need to drink the gel etc. We were encouraged to do a minimum of 1cc personal use. Let me clarify that is spending A MINIMUM of £160 per month on ourselves. Praise was heaped on those who did more in personal use who drank the gel and took the supplements. These people were love-bombed and the insinuation was that they were taking their business more seriously than those who wouldnt/couldn't use the same amount.

@ReformedBot's
^I'm pretty sure I know who ReformedBot is, and it's one of the reasons that I created the AMA thread, after coming across this forum.

I felt that a 2 year stint of abusing her uplines on this forum was quite literally one-sided and you can't tar everyone with the same brush or state that EVERYONE experienced the same as yourself.^

Abusing? It's not abusing to point out the lies and behaviours of people who openly put themselves out on social media.

I'm sorry that ReformedBot felt that she needed to take out finance and loans to fund her business. I personally don't know of anyone else that has done this and I find it quite sad that she felt resorted to do this.

I think you're mistaken, I never did this apart from borrowing money to buy my box.

^The term "fake it till you make it" I believe has been taken in the wrong way for some. They took that term quite literally.

The term is meant to be about confidence. An emotional state. Self belief - believing in your own capabilities, even when you're unsure.

This is a practice that many people use in many different businesses - and something I was also taught at University for tactics when going for a job interview. Faking confidence when you're actually ridden with anxiety inside.

It is not telling the world that you're getting Gucci and LV bags every weekend, when you’re not.

It's really important to note that this was never ever coached. ReformedBot, can you confirm that an upline never told you to lie and fake things that weren't true?^

Nope I cannot confirm that. We were told that the law of attraction was about believing something and bringing it into our reality. Castle herself once said that the photo she had posted on social media of her stood with a white range rover was taken before she bought the range rover as her "belief was so strong that she would own the car". I saw uplines and sideline imply things were "paid for by forever" when they were not at all. I witnessed a sideline imply that her holiday on an Eagles Retreat was all paid for by forever. She didn't mention once on social media that she'd had to pay for her partner and offspring to go...
Online trainings, people would say how "it's not fake it til you make it" but describe an action or show a social media post that was exactly that such as a hotel stay on their 'business trip' which they had paid for but thanked Forever.

Yes I am the first to admit that 2 of those uplines were fake - but, not everyone is malicious as you make out.

Ooh go on, name the two!

I've also read a few comments that are completely false, and that I know for a fact they are not true.

How about we address those? Perhaps people can provide evidence.

MLMsuperfan · 16/09/2019 14:09

I just checked in Lipbot and I'm delighted to see she's set up a new non-MLM business. She seems to be out of MLM for good.

BishBashBot · 16/09/2019 14:36

Can you explain why they have all taken HUGE directors loans, and or have their companies in liquidation due to being unable to pay back said loans? I do understand that you are only going on what you have seen, and been told.

Yes, you’re right. I can only comment on what I have seen, and that’s why I came here. To give my version. I can’t comment on people I don’t know.

"Fake it till you make it" is part of the training. Sometimes hubby's inheritance pays for the white rangey - or the deposit on its lease.

I’m just going to paste this here again from an earlier comment I made. I understand that there are bad eggs in every company and probably a lot in FL. But within my own team we never coached this.

“The term "fake it till you make it" I believe has been taken in the wrong way for some. They took that term quite literally.

The term is meant to be about confidence. An emotional state. Self belief - believing in your own capabilities, even when you're unsure.

This is a practice that many people use in many different businesses - and something I was also taught at University for tactics when going for a job interview. Faking confidence when you're actually ridden with anxiety inside.

It is not telling the world that you're getting Gucci and LV bags every weekend, when you’re not.”

If FL were presented simply as an opportunity to make a little bit of pocket money by selling the products to friends and family, that would be believable.

It is. It says exactly that in the business presentation.

The option to become a top bot is up to that person. Within every FSTM meeting I held, I always asked where they wanted to take the business and then coached them how to do that.

@Ref0rmedB0t
“This was definitely not true in my case. Is it fair to admit that what you experienced may not be the case for everyone?”

Absolutely,

Great, that’s exactly what I wanted you to admit.

everyone was encouraged to be a 'product of the product' with the coaching being that to get Gel drinkers you need to drink the gel etc. We were encouraged to do a minimum of 1cc personal use.

Maybe they told you that, but it was never recommended if you couldn’t afford it. I have never done 1CC in personal use and never would be.

I am my own mind and wouldn’t start buying products just because someone told me I needed to.

Come on, let’s be realistic here. If your upline also told you to jump off a bridge, would you?

The idea of being a product of a product was so that you knew exactly what you were selling. That’s exactly what the box was for, you didn’t need to stock out your whole house.

In fact, it was coached that if you couldn’t afford the products. Then you should choose a couple of your favourites and only retail them.

Every FBO was given options suitable for their goals and strengths. And as far as my experience, uplines always helped me and vice versa to my team. Maybe you had a crapper experience than me.

But you’ve now admitted that not everyone in Forever had the same experience as you, and that’s all I came here to prove.

I’ll leave you now.

Abusing? It's not abusing to point out the lies and behaviours of people who openly put themselves out on social media.

It absolutely is abusing.

Just the same as celebrities are in the spotlight, does that mean they are open game?

This whole forum body shames women. They hack into bots financial details, they stalk their profiles (even openly admitting they’ve been blocked by said person, and are trying to find a way back in), they've commented on the appearance of bots children, slandered and created false statements.

It’s nasty, cruel and it’s bullying. New laws are coming into place about trolling, and I would be extremely wary about the years of screenshotted threads and comments left by yourself (which also give clues as to your identity) and others in this group.

Bish, Bash, Bot - over and out! Wine

FranceTeam · 16/09/2019 14:52

Bish, can I ask a question on the top bots and the fact they create Facebook profiles tagging themselves as “public figures”. Some of them also create YouTube channels with reality tv like videos of their lives.

Do you think someone who describes themselves as a public figure should escape scrutiny of their activities?

MLMsuperfan · 16/09/2019 14:55

Not sure who has 'hacked' anyone. We look at public records that are public for a reason (limited companies exchange privacy for a limited liability).

We look at public social media profiles that are being run to promote an opportunity. You promote publicly; we can challenge those claims publicly.

There's no body shaming, only pointing out that the weight loss claims of body shamers are demonstrably false.

I can't recall comments about a bot's child.

Your scaremongering about new laws is laughable.

Cacacoisfarraige · 16/09/2019 15:57

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

YouokHun · 16/09/2019 16:38

Meanwhile over on AIBU someone is asking if it would be U to unfriend a friend who has joined an MLM. Cue a fully botted up coffee Hun defending MLM in the usual MLM bingo card way.

Spongebobette · 16/09/2019 16:44

@BishBashBosh

I found these threads after a friend joined FL and became brainwashed. And I mean brainwashed; she changed completely and posted constant positive memes, guilt shaming mothers who went back to work, giving the impression that she was soon going to sack the boss, boasting about how FL was paying for luxuries etc etc. She posted constantly about what a generous company FL is and the incentives and trips she could win. She went to Success Days and spent money she could ill afford on that and on all the other things that she thought she needed for success; having cards printed, paying for stalls etc etc

Behind the façade was a young woman with 2 small children and very little spare money, who bought into all of the lies and deceptions broadcast by the top bots we discuss here. She believed that if she had the right mindset she would do as well as they appeared to be. She got love bombed and told she was the next big success waiting to happen. She sat with her upline and wrote down her 'why'. She got excited about thinking up a name for her business.

She was trusting and naïve and was ruthlessly exploited. Her upline was one of the ones we mention. She was challenged to sell a certain number of lip balms or C9s. All of this cost her money personally because she wanted to meet her upline-imposed targets and keep 'in' with her. She did constant C9s and posted about that.

She never made any real money. She never went on any trips. She wasted time and energy and lost a lot of self esteem when things didn't work out.

Se is not the only victim, but she is someone I know personally. She is my 'why'. She is why I am vehemently opposed to MFLs and why I post on here.

So I make absolutely no apologies for looking into the reality, all of it in the public domain, behind the carefully constructed narratives that the top bots create on their social media. I am proud to think that someone might come across these threads and back off from deciding to spend £200 to be an unpaid rep.

Forever Living, of course, is only one of the MLMs that exist. Many others are just as bad.

You mention changes in the law. I am hoping for a change in the law that makes the MLM business model illegal.

MoonahStone · 16/09/2019 16:57

Ah the MLM Hun Bot flounce in all its glory when the 'trust me I'm not like the others and I'm making money' posts didn't get believed.

fromdownwest · 16/09/2019 17:34

@BishBashBot

"Yes, you’re right. I can only comment on what I have seen, and that’s why I came here. To give my version. I can’t comment on people I don’t know."

This is exactly the point of these threads, you have been fed lies upon lies. The top bots portray the illusion of being financially secure so they can lead the lavish lifestyles. However, without 'hacking' one can look at a public document and see that their businesses, are not posting a profit of six figures, are highly geared and in some cases insolvent. This is whilst still selling the illusion of a successful business model.

Even if you ignore the personal comments etc, surely you can see that if only 2 of the top bots are actually solvent, and many of the big names are on borrowed time (until their directors) loans are called in, you can see that the whole business model is flawed and the it is nothing more than an illusion, propped up from the people who can ill afford it.

It appears that you do not wish to look at the actual cold hard facts of accounts, and rely upon anecdotal evidence of success. No matter your views on it, you can not argue that their accounts are not those of a successful company.

leasedaudi · 16/09/2019 18:47

Yep there's a lot of big bots taking on a massive directors loan and some in compulsory liquidation because they can't pay it back. Ridiculous- it could have all been avoided if they weren't spending more than they earned and not trying to keep up with the Joneses/Bots.

Recent insta pic of Yawn displays the whiterangey, the Gucci belt (in brown though), paired with both a pair of peeptoes and a cameltoe .. 🤔 only one of those things is affordable on a bot salary.

Ref0rmedBot · 16/09/2019 19:06

Well, if taking one word from my text and quoting it out of context gave you what you were looking for maybe you could of just said that in the first place? It goes without saying that no two people have an identical experience, I didn't think that needed stating and some people were lucky enough to recruit well and make a good bonus off this then jump ship before it started sinking so maybe they never had to question what happened under their noses and be told as they questioned things that they had a 'negative mindset' which made them instantly blame themselves and question their ability to think critically. I can only reflect on what I have seen, like you.

You state I have abused my upline, defining your idea of abuse with a list and yet I have done none of those things so I'm still not any wiser of where I have abused anyone. It is to this end that your little end caveat about trolling is not relevant or a concern. Trolling is not talking about people who live their lives so publicly.

It's interesting you say I've posted here for 2 years. I wonder why or how you conclude that, it would suggest you have either been watching these threads for years or you have trawled back through them, either way, I wonder what made you do that? Am I not entitled - just like you - to share my experiences and comment on what I can see is happening?

Sometimes, it may seem a little close to the bone when an individual bot is discussed, and that's also been pointed out by regular posters here when a line is crossed.

It may not have been your experience but up lines contradicted themselves and forgot what lies they have told. That has been evidenced in these threads for many, many years.

Whiterangey · 16/09/2019 19:53

The anti trolling laws are not going to be put in place for bots who have had their feelings hurt because someone has called them out for their scammy business practices.

It's for serious cases where people are being told to kill themselves.

Jesy Nelson bravely told her story, bots made out they have been through the same thing.

Bot watching has to be anonymous. So many have tried to enter into conversation with bots, any hint of anyone saying anything negative about their business and the conversation is deleted and the person is blocked. The bots won't change what they are doing and refuse to enter into conversation as they know they cannot win.

The screenshot remark is odd. Screenshots are shared a lot on the facebook pages, but very very rarely on here.

Companies House records are open to the public, they are a useful tool to prove that bots are lying about income.

It's great for the UK black presenters in Younique, those that earn enough to warrant a ltd company. 6 figure earners? No, easily disproved.

I want legislation to make MLM's illegal in the UK. That would be perfect and would save so many women each year.

Due to the awareness of the anti-mlm movement, there are less and less women signing up to MLM, part of the reason for the decline. The rest is just that all MLM's did the boom and bust thing in 2014/15 and used up so many new recruits in such a short space of time that it's harder and harder to find fresh blood.

If bots are going to take magic beans and tell people they have caused magical weightloss, it's not surprising when people point out it's not true and they haven't. The same as when people pointed out that someone lost a tattoo while taking a weightloss supplement.

Things like the C9 are dangerous.

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