High rate PIP the mobility element.

[Furrybutts]

I'm asking this on behalf of my lovely friend and neighbour who has recently been diagnosed with MS.

On advice of a family member she applied for, and was awarded PIP at the standard rate for daily living and mobility.
Her mobility is extremely limited. She needs a wheelchair outside of the house, and walks a little with a frame inside her home. Sometimes she needs her wheelchair inside the house too. She is fortunate in that she works and so was able to afford the adaptions needed to allow this.

She drives herself to work each day after being helped into the car by a family member, and I believe she is helped by a colleague once she arrives.
However her car is far from suitable for her condition.
She isn't eligible for a car on the Motorbility scheme as she only scored 10 out of the 12 points needed for the high rate mobility element.

Is anyone able to throw any light as to how she wasn't eligible , or whether it's worth her appealing?

Or does anyone have any knowledge of how the points system works?

Many thanks in advance

www.citizensadvice.org.uk/benefits/sick-or-disabled-people-and-carers/pip/appeals/how-decisions-are-made/

This CAB guide explains the points system. Its always worth appealing.

Tell her to appeal, it'll be a long slog and maybe involve court but worth it.

Thank you both for your replies.
I have read that link previously, however I'm still not able to see where she has lost the 2 points.

Are they saying that you have to be unable to follow any sort of instruction as to how you get to places in order to be eligible?
If that is the case, you wouldn't be able to drive surely?

No they are saying she can walk 50 metres either with an aid or without.

It’s more likely due to the fact that she still has some mobility. You can only get the higher rate if your unable to walk over 50metres which can be difficult to prove.
It will be worth appealing over.

My dp is applying for this. He nedds a hip replacement, you can hear it grind as he moves. He can't walk without crutches and is on morphine for the pain and it barely takes the edge off. He also suffers from anxiety and depression, he has been trying to struggle through the pain as he hates the thought of claiming anything, just applying is dropping him further into depression. We have spent all our savings and now have no choice. I know that they are going to try and minimise his issues and it will be devastating for him. Apparently they almost always make you appeal in the hope you will give up. Please encourage your friend to appeal, it's not her it is the system. There has to be a better way to sort out who really should be entitled, the current system serms soul destroying and we are just beginning. Ironically, if they gave him the operation he needs promptly he would be happily working. He is 50 and can't even dress himself anymore without help

How can you prove a negative?

I work for Citizens Advice.
Your friend needs to be aware that if she appeals, the whole award will be reconsidered.
So if someone hasn't got PIP at all, they have nothing to lose by appealing.
But if someone has been awarded PIP (standard rate daily living and/or mobility) there is a small risk that they could lose it rather than getting a higher award.
I deal with claims and Mandatory Reconsiderations but not appeals, as our benefit specialists do those. So in your friend's case I would also consult with a specialist colleague before advising whether or not to appeal.
We would want to see all the paperwork - original claim form and any medical evidence that was sent with it. Plus a copy of the assessment report which your friend can request by calling the number on the decision letter.

So my advice is for your friend to visit Citizens Advice and take all her paperwork.

PS There's incorrect "advice" on this thread, please be careful!

Sorry you and your DP are going through this too Theyellowsquare I'm glad he has you.

My friend only has one (mostly disinterested) family member , and me.

I have just re read her report form.
She did get 10/10 for mobility, it was the 'Planning and following a journey ' element she didn't the points for, therefore leaving her 2 points short of the high rate needed for a Motorbility car.

I'm not sure how you would say someone could drive yet was unable to plan and follow a journey?

Thank you another Emma it looks like the CAB is the next step, and also yes I am aware of the incorrect advice having been through the entire process with my friend once already.

There are two criteria for mobility.

1. "Planning and following journeys" is about the mental ability to go out. So people with depression/anxiety that prevents them leaving the house, and/or they get panic attacks, could get points for it. Someone with a learning disability or dementia could also get points as they might get lost without help.

1. "Moving around" is purely about physical ability to move. Your friend got 10 points because they decided she can walk 20-50 metres. In order to get 12 points (ie enough for the enhanced rate mobility component) she will need to persuade them that she can walk no more than 20 metres (safely, reliably, repeatedly and within a reasonable time).

You get 12 points if you cannot walk at all or less than 20m and 10 points if you can walk more than 20m but less than 50m.

Your friend will have got the 10 points for mobility in activity 12, the assessor/decision maker has decided that she can walk 20 to 50m using an aid reliably and repeatedly on the majority of days.
You have said that she needs a wheelchair outside of her home and sometimes outside her home. My advice would be to appeal. In the appeal letter you need to explicitly explain how often her mobility is too bad to walk at all outside her home and also explain the help she gets at work to Gert her from car to desk/workstation including and adaptations work have made for her due to her needs.

Activity 11 is purely about mental health, sensory or cognitive issues in relation to planning and following journeys, it is not related at all to physical mobility which is why your friend didn't get points in this section.

Hope that helps from a (hopefully soon to be former) PIP assessor.

Or what AnotheEmma said better.

When they say safely walk, do they mean with crutches in considerable pain? Also do they mean every day? He probably could walk that far but would spend the next few days barely being able to get to the loo himself.

That's exactly it. If it will cause significant pain, if they have to rest for a long time afterwards, if there is a high risk they will fall and injure themselves badly, they can't do it "reliably" so can't do it, basically.

Hi,

I have just gone to appeal for PIP. Previous I had higher rate for both and this was taken away at assessment and given 0 points for both. The assessor lied about what was said at interview.
I won my appeal and have an higher award for both until 2022.

For planning and following a journey it is not only about mental ability as per a previous poster. I got 12 points under that section due to having narcolepsy means that I cannot safely always complete journeys on my own without supervision due to sleep attacks and muscle weakness. As she needs help getting in and out of cars and into her chair you may be able to appeal on that basis explaining that she needs help or aids in order to complete journeys.

Sorry I missed of “ up to” when I said 50 metres.

Help getting in and out of cars isn't considered at all within PIP especially not in activity 11 which doesn't consider the physical aspects of getting around.

In relation to conditions like narcolepsy/epilepsy vulnerability and risk is considered in activity 11. Majors changes were made following a ruling about these conditions in relation to a need for 'safety and supervision' a couple of years ago. However this isn't relevant to the OP.

Thank you everyone.
You have been a great help.

The safely, reliably, within a reasonable time frame is probably important her. If she can appeal on the basis that it takes her much longer than average , or that it causes her pain or isn't reliable because she is at risk of falling etc, that may be enough to get her the 12 points needed. if it takes her 30 minute to walk 50 metres then that is unreasonable.

Agree about going to Citizens Advice - they are doing appeals on a daily basis. In my area if you rang up they would take details over the phone and then refer you for an appointment with a specialist - so may be worth checking out what the local system is to you to avoid your friend making an unnecessary journey.