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Pension income

23 replies

Aurea · 30/03/2019 22:35

Just being a bit nosy about pensions and what you think is a reasonable to live on.

DH and I are just rearranging our pensions and we have requested illustrations around a total annual income of £40K (£20K each). Does this sound a reasonable amount? To give an idea, we are currently taking home net around £100K together but have a large monthly expenditure including a mortgage of over £2K and two teenagers, one of whom is starting university this Autumn.

What income are you hoping to achieve?

OP posts:
Yeahyeahyeahyeeeeah · 31/03/2019 00:09

40k each, but to be honest thats high

WhoAteMyNuts · 31/03/2019 08:11

We worked out that we would need £30,000 as a minimum pension income. Despite earning a huge amount now when we looked at what bills we would have when we retired it was far less that what we spend now.

We don't have a mortgage so a lot of our disposable income is going into investments to enable us to retire early on that amount without needing to use the capital.

WhoAteMyNuts · 31/03/2019 08:11

That's £30000 for the household, not per person.

milienhaus · 31/03/2019 08:14

Remember to take account of state pension as well!

Yeahyeahyeahyeeeeah · 31/03/2019 09:33

30k including state pension?

Yeahyeahyeahyeeeeah · 31/03/2019 09:37

I’ve devalued today’s value of state pension as I can’t believe it will keep in line with inflation for the next 20 years. I estimate it at £6k and then build income at 4% of capital. That allows the capital to be maintained. Makes it bloody expensive though.

Brahumbug · 31/03/2019 09:51

Op said 29k each, not 40k!

EluphNaugeMeop · 31/03/2019 09:59

Remember to take account of state pension as well!

Unwise. By the time we retire the state pension could be worth the equivalent of barely £3000pa in today's money (we can't assume that the amount will keep pace with inflation) and the state pension age increased to 75. Best to plan to be comfortable without it, and whatever we do get is a bonus.

blue25 · 01/04/2019 19:01

We're aiming for 35k household income, which should be plenty. We bring home around 100k at the moment. However, with no mortgage, commuting costs etc. we 'll be happy with 35k.

homethenababy · 01/04/2019 22:58

I would suggest take a look at how much you need for bills, living and treats and budget accordingly. 40k pa when you are used to 100k pa is almost half. If you are struggling or just about managing on 100k then 40k is going to be a shock. Likewise, if you save most of your money and can live on 30k then 40k is brilliant.

Don't forget when you retire your bills are likely to increase as you are home more, as will your leisure costs.

blue25 · 01/04/2019 23:03

Everyone's needs will be different, but our costs will decrease dramatically when we retire. No more commuting or work equipment/clothes. Will only need one car & Mortgage will be paid off.

homethenababy · 01/04/2019 23:04

@blue25 true, but also some things increase like heating/electric bills as you are in the home more. Plus leisure activities. I'm hoping it doesn't increase more than what I'm paying in travel and mortgage tho Grin

Soontobe60 · 01/04/2019 23:23

I have actually retired today!
Our joint income has reduced from £65k to £37k, but I've got a part time job to start next week which will bring in a further £24k. We have just paid off our mortgage, saving £1k a month, and other associated work costs have now ceased, saving a further £300 per month.
My income tax will reduce, as will my NI contributions and I will not have professional fees to pay.
Last year we downsized as our children have got their own homes, and spent a considerable amount on improving our home, somwill have no big maintenance costs for the foreseeable future. We have calculated that we even without my new part time income we will have the same amount of money to live on a small we had prior to retirement because of all these savings in outgoings. I got a decent lump sum as part of my pension to fall back on once I finish work completely. However, we don't have expensive tastes, are not wildly extravagant, and like to live within our means.
In 5 years I will also get my state pension of just over £8k.
If you own your own home, you don't need silly money to live well.

homethenababy · 01/04/2019 23:25

@Soontobe60 congratulations on the retirement! Did you celebrate?

Also, who retires on a Monday? At least see the week out Wink

WhoAteMyNuts · 02/04/2019 06:24

I worked out our projected bills based on the amount today and used that as a projection. However, that was with an IFA so they know I want an income of £30000 in today's money which with inflation etc will be different in the future. Of course general bills will go up but lots will be cut. I spend a fortune on dog walkers for example which I won't need when retired. Equally I am going on all the luxurious holidays now when I am fit and well rather than waiting until retirement as I have seen too many people in poor health in their later years which would preclude travelling long haul.

I do think you adapt to what you have. I spend far more money now because I can, whereas in retirement when you only have pensions and investments as income I would be more frugal and have time to shop for bargains when now I shop for simply for convenience.

8thplace · 02/04/2019 08:41

I am planning retirement at present and constantly researching how much DH and I will need to be comfortable. We too are aiming for about 30-35K household income. I'm taking my NHS pension at 55 ( 2 years time ) and will get annually 17K. We have two rental properties as DH income which should generate a further 18k. We are currently investing in S&S ISAS for long term growth and hoping for full State pensions at 67. This leaves a 12 year hole to fill with our savings ( 100k premium bonds) and my retirement lump sum 49K. No debts and mortgage free. Does this sound about right? We havent had any advice just making it up as we go along>

WhoAteMyNuts · 02/04/2019 08:58

8thplace
I went to an IFA with a similar situation in mind because when we want to retire we have a big gap between then and when our state pensions kick in. Whilst we have private pensions I was concerned they wouldn't be enough but didn't want to blindly stick more money in without a plan.

You might want to consider taking advice because they showed what would happen without any additional investments and that would eat into our capital and they forecasted when we would run out of money. They also showed other scenarios with investments including hiccups along the way such as a big stock market fall.

ForeverFaithless · 02/04/2019 10:15

I read this article recently, thought it was an interesting way to look at calculations (can't do a link sorry):

There are a number of different methods, that are used to measure how good or bad your financial situation is, with some being more complicated than others. The most common being what your net worth is, but even with that, it can be difficult to know if the calculation you are using is correct or not. And even if it’s reasonably accurate, what purpose does it really serve?

That’s an argument we can have another day. For the purpose of this article, I want to share with you a quick and easy to understand calculation that I like, and it’s called the rich ratio.

The simplest tools in my opinion are the best and this one is particularly useful when looking at the amount of money you will have in the future, in relation to the amount of money you’ll need. It’s very useful to get a reference point or number you can benchmark your personal situation against, and the rich ratio gives you just that.

(You can apply this ratio, by the way, to many other aspects of your financial life e.g. your monthly income and outgoings)

The term rich ratio is a bit misleading, because the ratio applies to everyone, regardless of their income levels. In fact, the amount you earn in many ways is largely irrelevant.

The ratio is calculated by dividing your income by the amount you spend.

And anything with a ratio over 1 is great, you have more than you can spend, and as a consequence you are likely to be a happy person, at least when it comes to your finances that is. And anything less than 1 means you’re spending more than you have, and understandably you’re probably unhappy with your financial situation.

Let’s assume Peter is coming close to retirement and he has built up a pension that will pay him €21,000 per year. He is entitled to the maximum state contributory pension of €12,000 and he has €2,000 from another source as well.

Peter has a total annual income of €35,000.

If, the amount Peter needs to spend each year is €30,000 then his rich ratio is 1.16 (€35,000/€30,000)

Peter is likely to be a happy retiree.

Let’s look at Paul who is financially much worse off than Peter, despite the fact he earned a much higher income during his lifetime and saved a lot more.

If Paul accumulated a pension fund of €1,500,000 during his working life which pays an annual income of €60,000. When combined with other income sources, he has a total income of €65,000, you would think he must have no worries and is blissfully happy.

And, of course that would be the case, if he spent less than €65,000 each year. But Paul likes to travel, he owns an expensive car, is a member of an expensive golf club, and has a lifestyle that costs him €80,000 each year.

This means his rich ratio is 0.81.

So, even though he had a high income and high savings, because his rich ratio is < 1, he is not rich at all, and that’s simply because his outgoings are higher than his income.

You could have saved a much lower amount over your working life than someone else, but that doesn’t mean you are worse off than them, in fact you could be much better off. If your haves (income) are greater than your needs (outgoings) it doesn’t matter how much you have saved – the key is how much you spend.

And that’s sometimes lost when people look at how much they need at retirement, they think the key to a happy retirement is measured by how much they have accumulated, and whilst it’s important, of course it is, what matters more is the amount you spend each year.

If, for example, you were able to reduce down the amount you spend in retirement by €500 each month, it means you wouldn’t have to save an additional €150,000 when you are working. Spending €500 each month, I think, is a lot easier than trying to save an extra €150,000

So, if you want a quick and easy way to figure out whether you are on track to a happy or unhappy retirement, then consider using the rich ratio as your benchmark to measure how you are doing against it.

And again, it’s simply:

Have (Income) / Need (Outgoings) = Rich Ratio.

If your ratio is > 1 then you are on track to have a happy retirement, if it’s < 1 then changes need to be made.

Because a persons’ financial situation is a factor in whether a person is happy or not, and we shouldn’t pretend otherwise because of course it does, it might just vary from person to person, the rich ratio can predict what someone’s happiness and quality of life might be like when they are older.

And you don’t have to wait to find this out or for a pension statement to tell you either, which they never do, how could they? They don’t know what your lifestyle is like or much you spend each month.

But you can discover it for yourself very quickly and easily. And your starting point is to estimate how much you need each year when you are in retirement. Use your existing outgoings as your starting point. How much would you need when the mortgage is paid off, kids off the payroll etc.

Let’s assume you arrive at €2,000 each month.

You now need to work out how much the amount you have accumulated and the amount you are saving will translate into when you reach retirement age. Let’s say you are saving €500 per month and have saved €50,000 to date and you have 30 years to retirement. Any on-line calculator will tell you that assuming a 5% annual return you will have €641,250 at retirement age, and this will pay you a monthly income after taxes of c. €1,880.

In this instance your rich ratio is 0.94, and because it’s under 1, you need to take action. You either need to reduce down your spending in retirement, or increase the amount you are saving now, or have another source of income in retirement, or continue to work – it’s your choice.

You don’t have to wait to find this out, when it’s too late to do anything about it. You can discover it for yourself very quickly and easily, and I would encourage you to figure out what your rich ratio is.

And keeping this number in mind and knowing what yours is and what side of 1 you’re on, will give you a much better chance to stay on track or make changes now that will put you above 1, and on the right path to a happier life and financial security when you’re older.

WhoAteMyNuts · 02/04/2019 16:35

ForeverFaithless that's a good way at looking at it. Whilst our predicted retirement income is way less than our current earnings we did base it on our predicted retirement outgoings with an additional buffer rather than a simple amount so hoping our ratio works out ok in the end.

Yeahyeahyeahyeeeeah · 02/04/2019 20:14

@8thplace getting advice might be well spent. Early retirement reduction factors mean accessing your NHS scheme early is very expensive. You should consider alternative scenarios. I say this as a pensions adviser.

8thplace · 03/04/2019 07:18

Hi @Yeahyeahyeahyeeeeah,

Thank you for your advice, however I am in the 1995 section of the NHS pension scheme and my TRS gives me a normal pension age of 55, which I understand is protected as I am within 10 years of retirement age. ( a very fortunate position to be in- but one which I intent to capitalise on ) .

Please let me know if this is not correct as my whole retirement plan is based on the figures I believe I will receive at 55 . I appreciate I would get more pension if I continued working untill 60/ 65/67, but I really don't want to after 33 years NHS FT work.

8thplace · 03/04/2019 07:21

@ForeverFaithless I like your examples re retirement ratio/ happiness and am going to spend an hour doing this with DH ASAP. Thank you

Yeahyeahyeahyeeeeah · 03/04/2019 17:07

@8thplace

The ones I have looked at have some early retirement reduction factor applied at 55, but to be honest there are so many sections you may well have the facility. I’d want to be certain it’s not just an entitlement to retire the, but a solid gold benefit of no ERRF ... which if it is, then it’s jackpot time!

Sorry to query it, but I’ve had things quoted before when administrators give retirement quotes, but they don’t usually do quotes showing leaving employment, leaving it paid up and claiming at 60 (for arguments sake), which can then show an increase beyond what employment would give IYSWIM

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