Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. Protection built in.

Meet the Other Phone.
Protection built in.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
Money matters

Find financial and money-saving discussions including debt and pension chat on our Money forum. If you're looking for ways to make your money to go further, sign up to our Moneysaver emails here.

Original poster

will i need a residency order for my own kids?

59 replies

lou33 · 28/06/2007 11:10

i was talking to a friend last night, who i found out has had her oldest dd taken from her by her exp

when she called the police they wouldnt do anything as they said the dd was not in danger and neither of them had a residency order specifying where the girl should be living (had all been informal for the last 8 yrs)

now i am wondering if i need to get one myself, in case when exh comes back to the uk he tries to do the same.

do i need to? am really worrying about this now

OP posts:
newlifenewname · 28/06/2007 12:21

Further, when ex dh ca me to my house in my absence and collected the children's beds and belongings and took them away on one of his contact days (they were aged 1 and 2) I phoned the police when I got home from work and all they could do was go and check they were happy and safe at his house.

Luckily all turned out okay and he gave back kids, beds, clothes, toys, TV and kettle. Weirdo.

Original poster
lou33 · 28/06/2007 12:21

thanks chipkid

my friend's dd is 10 btw, and hte police wouldnt intervene

not sure why he only took her and not the second dd

it's all v messy and painful for her and hte kids

OP posts:
anniemac · 28/06/2007 12:23

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn

newlifenewname · 28/06/2007 12:23

annimac, indeed, he was not successful in his application as I had always been the resident parent. He still holds it over me though.

Single women out there, choose wisely before you have babies. ;)

Original poster
lou33 · 28/06/2007 12:24

also they went to court 2 weeks ago and hte judge awarded him a temp residency order to her oldest dd and residency of their second dd to her, until 4 weeks time when they go back

OP posts:
anniemac · 28/06/2007 12:25

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn

anniemac · 28/06/2007 12:27

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn

newlifenewname · 28/06/2007 12:28

Yes, he had the children for the day with permission. What I hadn't expected was the removal of all their stuff from our home. He really thought he could whisk them off like that. I think the police turning up made him realise that he was going to have to do this through the courts and not by stealing them and their things away.

This is what makes it very brave of women to grant unlimited access to dodgy ex partners or husbands. It is so, so good for the children in most cases but men realise the law does not favour them and sometimes take drastic action which is not in the best interests of the children, but you can see why. However, some men are just egocentric tossers of course.

chipkid · 28/06/2007 12:30

with a 10 year old child their views are usually taken seriously. If a ten year old has voted with their feet, then a Court sometimes will not interefere with that until there is time for a proper hearing. In fact the Children Act tells the Judge that the first matter to consider on the elfare checklist are the wishes and feelings of the child in light of their age and understanding.

Shared residence Orders are no longer the gold dust that they were. There is an increasing trend at the minute where I practise to award shared residence much more willingly than before.

However if you are the prmary carer of very young children it would be unusual for a Court to interfere with that in my experience

anniemac · 28/06/2007 12:32

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn

Original poster
lou33 · 28/06/2007 12:47

what my friend doesnt understand is why he only wants their oldest, you would think if he was wanting residency he would have applied for both

poor thing is utterly confused, and now her dad isnt having her 3 weekends out of 4 like he was previously

OP posts:
Original poster
lou33 · 28/06/2007 12:47

poor thing being the dd2

OP posts:
anniemac · 28/06/2007 12:52

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn

anniemac · 28/06/2007 12:53

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn

Original poster
lou33 · 28/06/2007 13:23

i suspect that it has been engineered to be the dd's wishes myself

he has recently got involved with awoman who has a child and they are going to move in together. a bit of happy families maybe?

anyway i cant do anything about her circs, but she was urging me to find out about residency orders myself, to stop it from happening to me

OP posts:
Tanee58 · 28/06/2007 13:41

Hi Lou, just read your thread & I can see why you're so worried today. Can't offer advice as have no similar experience - exh only threatened to take dd once and that was when I asked him not to cite adultery in our divorce as it might upset dd later. I think he was just too angry and upset at the time and wanted to frighten me (though I suspect I would still have got custody even if he had fought). Since then he's been quite civilised & as dd's now 15 it's up to her whom she lives with (and she prefers me .

Other posters have much more experience & seem to have given good advice - but just to reassure yourself, CAB on Monday would be good. Is your ex likely to try to take the children just to get at you? If so, perhaps you could make sure he never sees them unsupervised and warn their schools not to let them leave with him.

Do hope things work out...

Freckle · 28/06/2007 13:43

Haven't read the whole thread. Lou, you have said that you haven't been able to issue divorce proceedings because of no address for exh. If he is coming back, why don't you issue divorce proceedings, but hold back on service until you know where he is. As soon as you know where he is, you can arrange for personal service of the papers. Include in your petition an application for a residency order.

You could notify your local police of your concerns, including the fact that he has been living abroad, with little contact, and is now intending to come home. That his behaviour has been erratic and that you are concerned for your and your children's safety. At least they will have a record should he try anything stupid.

Original poster
lou33 · 28/06/2007 13:43

i dont think he would do it to get at me, but he might think he has a right to them, so to speak

i will definitely tell the schools, good point, thanks

i've calmed downa bit, dried my eyes and pulled myself together, as getting in a state is going to do nothing really, especailly when nothing is concrete

OP posts:
Original poster
lou33 · 28/06/2007 13:44

i will start divorce proceedings as soon as i know where he is staying, i think he hasnt done it as his last bit of control over me

i'm pretty sure he could have got one of his resident friends in thailand to let me send them there, but he wouldnt give me the details

OP posts:
ProfessorGrammaticus · 28/06/2007 13:50

You can't apply for a residence order within a divorce petition - the residence appn is a completely different set of proceedings

Freckle · 28/06/2007 13:54

Divorce petitions do have provision for dealing with issues relating to children and finances. They will be dealt with separately, but you can ask for residency within the petition. When you fill in the petition (Form D8) you can also complete Form D8A (Statement of Arrangements for children).

Lou, you don't have to wait until you know where he is to issue the proceedings. You could get the ball rolling before he even lands in this country, then just have the papers served on him when you know where he can be found. Personal service ensures that he can't deny having received the papers.

chipkid · 28/06/2007 16:07

If you are going to apply to the Court for a Residence Order you have to file a separate application on form C1. You cannot simply put it in the divorce petition

Freckle · 28/06/2007 16:10

But all the issues are dealt with along side each other. After all, the court cannot decide on finances until they know where the children will be living.

kel4mum · 28/06/2007 16:33

Chipkid are you saying that if are the main carer that the father can come and take the kids and not return them as long as he has a home for them?

I think i might be getting confused

If you are the main carer you cannot apply for a residences order unless their is a threat that the kids might be taken?

Please can you tell me if that is right cos i am in a similar situation as Lou.

chipkid · 28/06/2007 17:01

If you are the main carer of small children then it is highly unlikley that a Court would interfere with that position unless there were real concerns about the care being provided. It is called the status quo argument (why change something that the children are used to and is working)

If the children's father did just remove them from you then without a residence order the police are unlikley to assist-you would therefore have to apply to Court for a Residence Order and should seek an interim order and an immediate return of the children. This can be done on very short notice.

If there is no issue as to where the children are living ie. the parents are in agreement there is an argument for saying that a Residence Order is not necessary. The Children Act has a no order principle -ie only make an order where it is better that making no order

HTH