Do I as mother automatically have right of care of children born out of wedlock? And how do I prove this to a German court?

[Nightynight]

I am in shit, ex h has kidnapped 2 of my children. I am going through a German court to get Sorgerecht (right of care) and the lawyer wants to show that I had it in the UK. I believe that I had it automatically, because we were not married when the children were born, and ex never went to court after we split.
Is this correct? and if so, what law can she refer to?

Does anyone know of a similar case (of someone transferring right of care from UK to Germany, divorced or never married)? Lawyer says it would be easier if she could refer to other cases.

Sorry to ask on mn like this - I already have a lawyer in France and another in Germany, dont think I can cope with hiring a UK one as well to answer these questions.

me in Germany, him in Frqnce: complicated, eventual conclusion is to go for PR in both countries; Germany followed by france:

thqnk you berolina. I am going hunting my children later

Hmmmmm I wonder if I know you from Mn from 6 months ago, have you name changed, I have - did you give your ex the house in France?

yup

oh dear, wish it was under better circumstances!!!! I deleted your email addy by accident and you took a break from MN for a while. Hugs - has he done it just to get at you?

I will cat you again later; am in internet cafe in france at the mo; hence struggles zith french keyboard zhich I am not used to:

Do you need help? I'm in Paris, don't know where you are...

The International Child Abduction Database should have a lot of useful information relevant to you. Good luck.

strasbourg. thqnks for good wishes everyone.

Nightynight - I've not read the full thread but I think there is something that might have been missed.

If the first post you say 'ex h' - do you mean that you married him after the children were born? If you married after the children were born then he would have got parental responsiblity when you married (s2(1) Children Act 1989). If you weren't married then the advice below (OK if prior to 1/12/03 whether or not on birth cert) is right.

If you both do have parental repsonsiblity (i.e. because you married him) and there are no court orders dealing with residence then you do not have sole custody. HOWEVER even in this situation he does not have the right to remove the children from the UK without your consent - it is a criminal offence under Child Abduction Act 1984.

If you were NEVER married then you can ignore this message.

If you married after your children were born, then your ex would automatically have acquired parental responsibility. So you both have equal rights.

As their mother you automatically have a right of care, but have you divorced? What orders were made in the divorce?

married.
had 2 children.
divorced - no order, but a statement giving me sole care and him regular contact.
had 2 more children after marriage.

It is complicated, but the UK law is just a starting point for proving it in france and germany.

This lawyer www.cyber-avocat.com knows about European family legal issues. You can do online consultations.

Hi how's it going, let me know if there is anything I can do to help - not sure what I possibly could do though. Hugs.