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)(*)*)(*)(*)*)*)*)*)* LIVING TRUSTS)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*()*& GENERAL TRUST ADVICE NEEDED.

50 replies

Tortington · 11/06/2007 14:10

google only lets me understand so much, as i am not a financial wizard.

any financial people know

if i bought a property - put the property in trust for my children and became the trustee.

can i do this indefinaltey or cant he kids claim their bit at 18? or can i specify "when i die you money grabbing turd" in the trust - which sounds atually the way its most likley to go i would think???

can i sell on the property and buy a different one up the property ladder so to speak - say in 20 years time as the trustee - "in trust" for my children ?

in short can i do what i would do anyway but the downside being ic annot access the value of the property for myslef? say if i had a terminal illness and needed lifesaving operation in america. ...for instance.

does anyone know the tax implications. i looked on the govt website and i swear it was in swahili.

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Tortington · 11/06/2007 14:17
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mumblechum · 11/06/2007 14:34

I'll try to help Custy but don't specialise in this area. Have basic knowledge though.

Big question:

Why do you want to do this???

(am going to be offline now for couple of hours will check at teatime).

Tortington · 11/06/2007 14:41

cos if i divorce my lovely husband - which i am NOT planning to do. been married for 18 years - 17 of them were fine then last year the shit hit the fan a little - but i hope they will be fine again forever with hugs and choclate candy roses and puke

my mum died ( buried her last firday house in probate)

i think it unfair that my dh should get half of her money - SHOULD we divorce - whichisn't what ia m intending to do i repeat.

equally i wouldnt want to stay in my marriage some ten years down the line becuase he would take half the money my moher left to ME.

so. i love dh i really do. but i want to keep my mothers (and fathers) money from going to him should we split.

the reasonable choice would be to set up a trust.

the kids are going to get it anyway.

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noddyholder · 11/06/2007 14:44

Yes you can specify when they get it.Wouldn't leaving it to them in your will be the same thing?i think you need to speak to a solicitor as I am sure you can sell on It is you assets once you die(!)that you are putting in trust not your home I think.xxThey can't save your life in America btw I've tried it!hope you are ok

Tortington · 11/06/2007 14:48

need a house in trust.

re trust versus will - in case of divorce - where dh gets half my virtue of being highly fortunatley married to me and no other reason

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noddyholder · 11/06/2007 14:53

Is there no way of you both signing something showing that your deposit and the percentage of the house value is 'yours' and the remainder joint?There must be You can book one off appointments with soplicitors for a set fee just to ask questions etc Might be an idea for you.Would he sign it and is he ok about it?

mumblechum · 11/06/2007 14:55

Ah, now you're veering a bit closer to my territory (I'm a divorce lawyer).

If (and I realise it's a remote possibility), you got divorced, the court could and would make whatever order it felt appropriate, which could include taking the view that the trust was set up purely to keep your mum's money out of your dh's hands, and if your dh has made contributions through indirectly funding a mortgage for the balance, has spent money doing your new house up, etc, could rule that unfair and penalise you.

If you didn't put the house in trust at all, you'd get the lions share of the equity anyway assuming you kept the kids and he earns more than you. That would of course change if you didn't divorce till the kids were over 18.

I've just done a case where the wife kept all of her inheritance, then they split the extra equity 60/40 to her. She'd inherited her money 5 years ago.

I'd think seriously about doing a trust deed between you and your dh, leaving the kids out of it.

If, for the sake of round figures, you buy a house for £200k and £100k of that is from your inheritance with the balance raised by a mortgage in joint names and which you'll pay in equal shares, the deed could say that you will get your £100k back in the event of a split plus half of whatever equity is in the house at that time.

If the situation changes (maybe your dh inherits and wants to pay a chunk off the mortgage), you simply cancel that deed and do a new one.

With divorce law, the court will always make whatever order it sees fit with the priority being the childrens' welfare and so will often ignore the fact that a house is in one name only, but if you do a formal trust deed, with each of you taking separate legal advice at the time, the court would have to take that seriously.

Tortington · 11/06/2007 15:01

i am planning to buy with no outstanding mortgage.

i earn more than him by approx £500 pa - not much.

my kids will all be over 18 in 4 years time

then where would is stand?

what is a trust between just my dh & i?

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Tortington · 11/06/2007 15:04

noddy, the way i undestand it - it that we have have a post nup - dh has agreed. but this isn't legal anyway the courts decideing much like th criteria mumble has outlined below.

he has never supported me. i have never been a housewife. i have never relied on him.

and it will just be a case of two adults in 4 years time.

empty nest syndrome at 39 possibly. huge lifechanging times i imagine.

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Tortington · 11/06/2007 15:04

can ave post nup*

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noddyholder · 11/06/2007 15:22

Oh I see now.You do need a trust then as it is a sure way of protecting it.It will probably never come to that though but better to be safe.I am happy you are in a position to get the house you have so wanted although obviously the circumstances are so sad for you all.The fact that he will be living mortgage free will give him the opportunity to save etc and just be better off all round so he can't complain.

Tortington · 11/06/2007 15:31

i agree - in a fair world he would say" no darling, you mother saved this for you, we shall divorce happily as i am content my children will have a lasting future"

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Tortington · 11/06/2007 15:43

come bck mumle chum.

come back mumblechum

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mumblechum · 11/06/2007 18:00

Hi custy I'm back.

There's not a huge amount to add, really, I had a feeling your kids are growing up now. As there won't be any mortgage, a fair way of doing a trust deed between you and dh would be to say you'll retain your inheritance if you split and, given equal earnings, you'll split anything over that equally.

It would actually be better to do it that way than to buy in your name. This way you're making it clear in advance what the intention is.

Hulababy · 11/06/2007 18:06

Think you can have it held in trust but with you having a life interest in it - i.e. you get to live there forever and you can buy/sell IIRR.

DH (solicitor specialising in this field - wills, probate, tax and trusts) deals with this type of thing a lot. Can ask him any questions you may have later if you wish.

mumblechum · 11/06/2007 18:09

Sorry being rushed by ds.

By buying in trust, you're buying in joint names which may have implications re. inheritance tax (good ones!). Instead of buying as joint tenants in equal shares, which is the bog standard way of doing it, you'll buy as tenants in common or joint tenants (depends whethr you're worried about inheritance tax) but in UNEQUAL shares, specified there in the deed.

As you're only in your thirties, you may not be too bothered about the tax aspect.

I'd be recommending a deed of trust over a postnup, simply because they are much more common and the precedents are there in the case law for them to be upheld in circs like yours.

When you're ready to buy you need to raise this with y our conveyancer and your dh MUST get separate legal advice otherwise it could fail.

By the way, I'm really sorry about your mum, and hope things aren't too grim. I found when my ds1 died that the worst time was just after the funeral. Hope you're remembering to look after yourself.

mumblechum · 11/06/2007 18:10

Just seen Hulababy's post. In your circs, I wouldn't actually recommend the kids getting involved in a trust at all.

Years down the line, you may want to think about it (some people try to avoid nursing home fees by transferring to adult children while retaining a life interest, but deffo not sensible to do that now.)

Tortington · 11/06/2007 21:53

thank you thank you

so am i right.

i can sign a deed of trust whicha llows any inheritence i get from my mum to remain with me.

the equity and other assets thereafter to be spilt equally?

does this deed of trust have a specific name?

as i walk into a solicitors office i shall say ..........? specifically, which makes me look like i have done some excellent research and he isn't talking to an imbicile

thank you thank you thank you

i have posted of this before and thought i were doomed.

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mumblechum · 12/06/2007 10:36

Sorry for delay Custy.

Yes, you basically say that to the solicitor and they'll tailor make it for you. If it was me doing it, it'd look something like;


  1. Custy inherited £x on 10 June 2007
    and it is agreed that
    that sum shall remain the absolute property of Custy
    and whereas

  2. Both parties have taken separate and independent legal advice,


    I) Custy and Mr Custy agree to purchase Custy Villa at a price of £y, mortgage free as joint tenants in the following shares:
    [ However it works out]

    II). In the event that the parties separate, the property shall be sold on the open market and the net proceeds of sale after payment of estate agents commission and conveyancing fees shall be divided as follows:

    a) £x shall be paid to Custy

    b) the balance of the net proceeds shall be divided equally between the parties

    c) [you might want to put provision in here for future borrowing for improvements etc and say how that would be dealt with]

    There would be other legalese in the deed, but that would be the bare bones.

    It should take about 2.5 hours, prob cost about £500 plus VAT but well worth it.

    Your dh's bill should be a lot less as his solicitor just has to check it over, not draft it.
Tortington · 12/06/2007 10:39

i love you!

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mumblechum · 12/06/2007 11:03


Tortington · 12/06/2007 11:13

i have just had a phone call back from a phone enquiry i made yesterday - the solicitors assistant spoke to me on the phone which made things difficult as she didn't know what she was talking about

she said the solicitor said

"baiscally if the moey ois traceable he is entitled to half of it"

"the trustees of the trust would have control and give me money"

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Tortington · 12/06/2007 11:17

and there was no free initial consultation it would cost £100 initially and £180 per hour after that.

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mumblechum · 12/06/2007 11:46

They're talking out of their arse.

Get a conveyancing lawyer on the phone if poss to get a quote.

A deed of trust isn't the sort of trust where you have trustees as such, it's just a declaration of how you're buying the property.

When you've found a house, find a good, experienced high street conveyancer and say that you want to do a deed/declaration of trust and they'll draft it at the same time as they do all the other conveyancing stuff.

Tortington · 12/06/2007 12:00

right o - thank you.

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