What is fair Child Maintenance - Single Mother's Opinion Please

[MissedTheBoatAgain]

I work outside EU so CMS can't make an assessment as I have no UK Taxable Income. I used the online calculator and it came to about 100 pounds per week for one child.

Have seen on some posts on MN that it can cost 230K to raise a child over their childhood years to 18. That's about 1,000/month. Is this correct? Seems a lot.

During the marriage Wife had credit card to pay for whatever she needed that I paid by direct debit so I would not know what was spent on child.

I can afford to pay 1,000/month, but curious to know if that is what it actually costs to raise a child?

It's not only about what it costs. It's about you paying a fair proportion of your income for a child you created (in the UK it's a very small amount because the Tory government reduced it and ensured there were plenty of ways to avoid paying and no real consequences for doing so). It sounds like if the calculator says you should pay 100 but you can afford to pay 1000, you have inputted the figures incorrectly.

Agreed. It sounds like the an input error into the online calculator.

How many DC(S), what’s your net salary after pension contributions, and how many nights per year will you be taking care of your DC(S)?

I get a decent amount from my ex, around 600 per month. More than the CSA would give me. I almost think what is more important is that there is no quibbling, if he gets a raise so do I.

It depends on the lifestyle of the resident parent and child.

Realistically if they have lived a comfortable life, then they will expect to continue in that way.

I get £450 per month for one child. I work too and I think it's a reasonable amount.

What do you actually earn? If you have a higher income, then your child should benefit from that, even if it's possible to raise a child more cheaply.

Pressed send too soon. There is no argument about money, about what it is spent on etc... he has no issues about buying clothes or paying for a summer club or taking a day off if required. It’s made the whole process easy and neither of us takes the piss.

No input errors. I converted my overseas earning to Sterling divided by 365 then multiply by 7 to get the gross weekly amount. Reason I can afford more than Calculator is that I have little expenses when overseas as accommodation, food and transport is provided by employers.

I'm not sure why you have a daily income. You should look at your p60 equivalent or your tax return for last year to ensure your figures are correct. Have you talked to the child's mother about her needs?

What it "costs" to raise a child is as much a variable as your salary.
Think about it this way, had you still been in a relationship with your child's mother, then it may well have "cost" you more to raise your child than it's costing Joe Bloggs along the road. ...... because of different incomes, and therefore expenditure. E.g. shopping at Waitrose rather than Aldi, owning a larger home meaning larger bills

For the sake of argument, if you are earning a lovely tax-free 100k salary with living expenses paid by your employer, I'd expect you to contribute more than someone earning 10k did. Or let me re-phrase that, I'd expect you TO WANT to contribute more. Without suggesting throwing money at your child is the sole answer, ideally your child doesn't "suffer" a drop in income just because you don't live with it's mother.

We all know it doesn't work exactly like that. But if the CMS calculator genuinely suggests £100, but you feel you can afford £1000 ..... if you're a decent man, then you know the answer.

If the child lived with you full time what life style would they have - that is what you should be sharing.

Firstly it's not just the father who should be financially responsible for a child. If together it is agreed that the mum can be a sahm that's all very well but that's a luxury that can't be expected when separated.

Then it comes down to the income the mum can generate vs the lifestyle one want for the child.

Finally it depends on the father's life. Father who remain single are likely to be much more willing to pay more than minimum, they rarely do when they have a new family.

Ex wife has Job of her own and is entitled to; Working Tax Credits, Child Tax Credits and Child Benefit. She has no mortgage or rent to pay as given enough capital to buy a house outright. As I am overseas I gave her the family car too.

In addition to the child maintenance I am prepared to pay for Child's; birthday, Christmas and annual holiday.

You should pay what you can afford to pay. She will be giving her child everything she can, you should do the same. If you have genuine doubts as to her spending the money on household and child rather than hair and beer ( and I MEAN GENUINE, not “she dumped me therefore is whore now”) then give 15% of your income in money and then gift your child with clothes, shoes, extracurriculara etc

The tax credits are neither here nor there really, except insofaras they tell us she's not a high earner. They don't need to form part of your calculations.

The Online Calculator is based on the paying parent's income. What the receiving parent earns is not taken into account.

IIRC it's a percentage of the non-residents parents salary. Something like 15% for one child and 20% for 2 children. Adjusted for overnights I think.

12% for one child up to 800 pounds per week. Anything above that amount is 9%. Total is reduced by 1/7 for every night per week the child spends away from Main Carer.

The online calculator takes nights into account.

It's easy to use the online CMS calculator to work out your child maintenance liability. That is the legal minimum you should pay the mother of your children. Whether or not the CMS have jurisdiction to force you to pay it is of course a separate matter.

It is wrong to say that because you don't have UK taxable income, the CMS can't assess you. You could provide them with evidence of what you actually earn, i.e. payslips, and they can assess from that. You could also simply work out the minimum you should pay, using the calculator, and start paying that as a minimum.

You can choose to pay more if you can afford to. It costs a lot to raise a child, certainly more than £1k a month over a childhood (if you are talking about a childhood in which money isn't always a worry) Clothes, school trips, music lessons, dance lessons, sports clubs, birthday presents for friends (when they get invited to parties), books and other paraphernalia to support learning, all add up to a lot. Plus the basics such as food.

My ex is a high earner. He pays in excess of the CMS amount. This is more than 1000 per month for 3 children.

I could manage on less. I also work. But I would object to being told I should, just because children could cost less.

If we were still together, he would be spending more than the CMS minimum on his children. Why should my children not have nice things and nice holidays just because their father left?

He still has approximately 4k per month left over after paying the maintenance. That is a substantial amount for a single person to live on. If he were to cut the CMS to the bare minimum, it would not be due to necessity.

If you can afford to pay more than the minimum, I think you should. Then your children can benefit from an enhanced standard of living

The £100 is per week, whereas the £1000 mentioned is per month, so we're comparing apples with oranges.

So the minimum you would be paying with your salary in the UK would be £430/month. But if you think his costs will be 1000/month, then surly you should aim to pay at least 500 (half).

Think about what you would do if you still lived together, would you provide the minimum (eg. Second hand clothes / basic food), or would you provide the best you could?

The question of what is "fair" is also separate from the paying parent's CMS liability. CMS only has jurisdiction to assess up to a certain amount of income, I think £2000 gross per week. If you are earning millions per year but only pay the maximum the CMS can assess for, that obviously isn't "fair". The legal principle behind child maintenance is that the child should enjoy the same level of lifestyle with each parent. In England that principle can be enforced the the NRP through a Sch.1 Children Act application to top up CMS maintenance. As you are abroad, that would be more difficult for the NRP but you "should" still pay a sufficient level of child maintenance for your child to have a comparable lifestyle with the NRP as with you.

1Wanda1

CMS only deal with case where all parties (Mother, Father and Child) are UK Resident. As I am Non Resident the HMRC Self Assessment Tax Return is all zeros. There is REMO to deal with parents who live outside the UK, but Country I work in does not have REMO with UK.

CMS deals with weekly incomes up to 3,000 pounds. If paying parent earns more than that the receiving parent can apply through the courts for additional maintenance.

OP to take your point about only "paying parent" income being taken into account, not "receiving parent's" income ..... it's for the same logic already explained.

It's about how much YOU should contribute towards raising your child. Whether the other parent earns "enough" to raise a child via their own salary / benefits / other income is kind of irrelevant.

What may be relevant, however, is whether the value of capital in the house and car you signed over should be taken into account. (was it an "official" settlement?). That's probably one for your own lawyer to assist on.

Final deal was made outside of court, but a Consent Order has been stamped by the family court. The Consent Order included a Child Maintenance figure, but after 12 months either parent can apply to the CMS. Once CMS have made an assessment the Consent Order with respect to Child Maintenance is no longer binding.

MissedtheBoatagain: as I said in my first post, yes CMS does not have jurisdiction to require you to pay. You have not addressed the question of why you can't just input your own income details into the CMS calculator, determine what they WOULD assess you as liable to pay if you DID live in the UK, and then pay that to the mother of your child, as that is the minimum you should pay.

What's the answer to that question?