Advice regarding UC and what group my dad should be in...

[VillageFete]

Hi,

I’m after some advice please regarding my dad and UC. I am so stressed with him, he just has no clue what he’s doing and is relying heavily on me to sort it for him. I’m currently undergoing IVF number 3 and also nursing my best mate through stage 4 cancer, as well as looking after her son multiple times a week. I am at my wits end and don’t know what else I can do to help him?!

He is in trouble with his housing trust regarding HB he was receiving that he apparently shouldn’t have been. I’ve paid £150 for a solicitor to represent him in Court over this (Right now £150 is a lot of money to me as i’ve just had to pay for IVF again, which has crippled me)

He has just been awarded PIP - full amount for both personal care and mobility. He’s 63 in October and suffers with depression, severe bronchial problems, issues with his mobility because of his back, and an injury he sustained to his arms years ago (I don’t know the medical terms for his issues, he can never relay the info to me as he’s always confused)

He is on UC (moved from ESA) The last ESA assessment he had, he scored no points He has appealed it and is awaiting his decision. Can someone explain to me - is ESA now replaced by UC? I have access to his UC account but don’t bloody understand it? They are hounding him on it to look for work 35 hours a week... surely there’s another group he should be in? He can barely string a sentence together and is incredibly unwell, he can hardly walk lately.

I’ve heard something about a UC/ESA support group. How can he apply to get in this? He has got me demented to figure it all out for him and I really am struggling with it all, with everything else I have going on. Can anyone offer me any advice and confirm what group he is in to me? I don’t understand it at all. I just don’t want him to be sanctioned for not completing tasks etc... but he genuinely doesn’t know how.

Thanks in advance.

Income related ESA is now part of UC. I assume that is what he is on. As he has been denied ESA ( failed assessment), it is correct that he will now need to claim UC. I think even if he wins the appeal for the ESA then he cannot go back onto ESA once he is on UC. UC replaces six different means tested benefits so now he is on UC he will receive a personal element and a housing element. You need to check on his UC journal that he is being paid his housing element.
As he has been chucked off ESA he will be expected to look for work 35hours a week by UC. Obvioulsy he can't do this so he needs to keep handing sick notes to his job coach and hopefully that will stop him having to work search. If he just keeps handing sick notes in then at some point he may be called for another assessment on UC. If he can be awarded the Limited capability for work element on UC then that would be extra money on his UC ( this element is the equivalent of the old support group category of ESA ). Hope this makes sense. has he taken all his ID documents in for the UC claim ? Is he already receiving payments?

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Just to add- PIP is completely separate to UC- his PIP money will be paid separately to UC. PIP is money which helps with the long term costs of a disability and ESA or the equivalent componenet on UC ( LCWRA) is about fitness to work. It is perfectly possibly for someone to receive highest rates of pip and still be found fit for work _ although that doesn't sound like the right decision for your dad.
Try to get help with his ESA appeal through CAB or similar- if he wins it ( and many do) he will get backdated money but I think he still has to stay on UC

Sorry to keep posting - I think the main thing he needs to keep doing at the moment is handing in sick notes.

Why are they saying he shouldn't have received the housing benefit? is it a private pension or savings or something that means he shouldn't have received it ?

Babyroobs Thank you SO much for your reply! You have been so helpful. Do you mind if I PM you parts of my Dad’s UC account regarding payments as I just don’t understand it? He is already receiving payments, yes.

Am I correct in thinking when he’s 65 and can claim his pension, he’ll automatically be moved to the support group, rather than a work focused one? And in the mean time he just needs to get Dr’s notes to prove he is unfit to search for work?

Regarding the ESA appeal, if he loses it then i’ll have to pay the solicitor to re-appeal (if that’s possible) He has been waiting for his appeal decision for about 10-12 weeks.

Re - the housing benefit. His 16 year old son (my half brother) moved in with him, temporarily. It was something to do with that. He is back with his mum again now.

The whole thing is a mess, my dad just can’t/won’t take any responsibility with it all and it’s just so stressful for me.

when he is 65 he won't be on UC or ESA as they are earnings replacement benefits. if he is just on a very basic state pension then he will get topped up by pension credit and should still get his rent and council tax paid. If on PIP and he lives alone and no-one claims carers allowance for looking after him then he would also get a severe disability premium on pension credit. Unfortunately until he is state pension age he is stuck on UC !

Regarding the ESA - have you just asked for mandatory reconsideration at the moment? If MR is turned down then you go on to appeal.

Did he fail to let Housing benefit know that your half brother had moved out ? He would have got more housing benefit for having a child living with him, so should have let them know when he moved out. This may be where the overpayment has occurred.

On his UC statement he should be getting a standard element , and a rent housing element . If he hands in sick notes and eventually gets re-assessed again for capability for work then he would get another element added which would increase his payments.. What group was he on for ESA - support group or wrag group ? On UC if he continues to hand in sick notes he will eventually be sent a UC50 questionnaire wheer he will need to fill out details of his health conditions.

If he just continues to hand in sick notes now and tells his work coach he is appealing his ESA then they should hopefully say he has no commitments to look for work.

On UC I think it is just a case of starting the whole capability for work thing again. ESA appeals can take months to be resolved which is why he must have been told to go onto UC in the mean time.

Again, huge help. Thank you!

Regarding the housing benefit situation, i’m not 100%. He finds it difficult to verbalise anything to do with it all. He’s clueless and genuinely doesn’t see what he’s done wrong.

Yes, I think it’s a MR. He was awarded no points and has said he disagrees with it, so had to go for a medical. He is waiting on the results of that, and it has been approx 10-12 weeks. If he still gets awarded nothing, he’ll take it to appeal. If he does get awarded it, does that mean he doesn’t have to job search?

He only got his PIP decision in May. Apparently it will be reviewed in 2021 from memory?

The Esa decision ( if he wins)will put his into one of two categories - either they will find him able to make some preparations to work ( WRAG) or they will find he has Limited capability for work and work related activity - this used to be the old support group of ESA but on UC it is the LCWRA element. I think if his ESA claim was started before April 2017 then if he gets awarded either groups he will get some extra money on his UC. If he was awarded the WRAG or LCW as it is now called - then he may still need to meet with a work coach to discuss preparations for work but if he was awarded Support group ( Now called LCWRA ) there is no ned to look for work, no need to hand in sick notes and they generally leave you alone , although he may still be re-assessed every couple of years. So being awarded LCWRA would be the best scenario ! And if he was awarded it on appeal then he should also be due backdated money. Sorry it is all so complicated !! PIP doesn't really have much relevance to ESA as ESA is about capability to work and PIP is about extra money for long term disability. Please make sure you let UC know that he has been awarded PIP and also if he gets council tax discount then let them know . Being in receipt of PIP passports people to other benefits, maybe increased council tax reduction.
It is a real shame that your dad failed the ESA because now he is on PIP he most likely would have been awarded severe disability premium on top of his ESA ( assuming he lives alone and no-one claims carers allowance for looking after him ), however there is not currently any equivalent premium on UC ( something which has been very controversial and may change in the Autumn ). What happens if someone has had to go onto UC because they have wrongly failed the ESA assessment. and then wins the appeal I really don't know as they have potentially lost out on a lot of money ! It may be worth seeing if CAB can help or advise further.

Also I'm surprised that they are making a 63 year old man who is disabled enough to be on PIP work search for 35hours a week. He needs to show them his PIP award letter and hand in sick notes, it sounds like he may have a very harsh work coach - each claimants commitments can be tailored individually and this sounds very harsh and unrealistic.

Can I just say that I think your dad is very very lucky to have you

Caribbean - Totally agree, and it is horrible for vulnerable people trying to navigate this horrible system when they are unwell so people need all the support they can get.

Babyroobs You are such a wonderful person to offer all of this information. Can’t thank you enough. It’s such a horrible, complicated process, and for you to break it down for me has been a considerable help.

In order to make sure he gets any other help he may be entitled to, such as council tax benefit, would he need to go the one stop shop with his proof of PIP? I will check with him tomorrow to see if his work coach knows he’s in receipt of PIP.

Caribbean You have nearly made me cry! Thank you. He’s a pain in the backside, but he is vulnerable, and I dread to think what it’s like for other vulnerable people who have nobody to assist them

He can apply for help with his council tax from the council directly, and yes he can take his PIP award letter. Being in receipt of PIP passports you to more help with other things, even things like applying for discount on energy bills if he is struggling with things like that.

You are very welcome to the advice, sorry it's so complex. I think these people who are losing ESA and then having to claim UC are having a particularly tough time whilst waiting for appeal. It is awful what people are going through. I hope you manage to sort things out.

Sorry to have to tell you that if he is 63 in October being born in 1955 will not get his state pension until he is 66 as pension ages are rising.

Sorry forgot to say you may want to give age uk a call they can help your dad about benefit claims
www.ageuk.org.uk/?gclid=EAIaIQobChMI7ODW57Gn3AIVLrvtCh3K7AWBEAAYASAAEgLHP_D_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds

Oldsu It just gets better. 66? Fucking disgusting. I despise this wicked Govt. Thanks for the age UK link, will give them a call.

If he is on UC and is expected to be looking for work, does he have to attend the job centre every week to sign on ? If so perhaps you can go along with him. I thought that there were monetary sanctions if you don't attend. He may also receive council tax discount, prescription discount, housing payment. UC is £73 for an adult

Yes there are sanctions if you don't attend, it basically all comes down to how harsh your work coach is. Someone like op's dad should be on minimal work commitments if he is handing in sick notes and is on PIP but if you get a bad work coach then they seem to be able to do what they want. It's disgusting.

Xtrah0urzz he will get free prescriptions anyway as he is over 60 so that's one less worry for him