University records - are they required to hold any on you when you have graduated?

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I graduated from Brunel University in West London in 1990. I now need a transcript for all 4 years that I was there so that I can gain teaching registration here in Scotland. Brunel have my records from Yrs 1 - 3 but have lost my 4th year. They seem content to leave it at that but I really need the record. What are my rights - anyone know?

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Don't they have anything? We have the detailed student file held in the department but also official info on degrees awarded etc is held centrally by the registry.

I have scanned my degree certificate, my certificate of Education and any letters I had about winning a University prize for my major project. Because of this they accept that I have these. Apart from that though they have nothing. My problem is that the teaching council needs to know what I studied so that they can assess if I may teach in Scotland even though I didn't train here. I teach Technology and in England it is a rather broad subject covering cooking and textiles through to computers and electronic control. Without the Transcript they can not place me correctly into there catagories. I've been in contact with the university for 5 months now and I still don't have what I need. I just wondered if I had a right to demand some action.

God, I'm shocked.
I don't know what the official rules are but I'm 100% certain that the university has a moral responsibility to you in this situation even if they have no legal one, and should be working with you to provide the information as best they can.
I think you should lodge a complaint with someone higher up the hierarchy of the university. If you've gone right to the top already, every university has someone - I think they're called a 'Visitor' in some unis - who is an important person external to the uni (royal family type) who has the role of sorting out disputes. My advice would be to find out if there is anyone like that and approach them if you've been as high as vc/chancellor and not had any help from within the uni.

I mean, between you and them it ought to be possible to make a list based on what students at that time were studying and for them to write a letter affirming that though they don't have an exact record of your marks on each course, your degree results are consistent with your having passed them all.... or something along those lines.

I'm a uni lecturer by the way

That is exactly what I suggested. I thought a scheme of work or prospectus entry may exsist somewhere and that they could say this is what I studied and as I got a 2.1 I passed at X percentage. No reply has come to this suggestion. I am only dealing with the Assistant registra at the moment. She is the 4th person to deal with me. The first was an Alumni officer, the second in admin, the third from the faculty where the department that I studied in has been moved to and finally this assistant registra.I have asked her if I should speak to anyone else but again no reply.

I suggest you write to the Academic Registrar, or Registrar (possibly called 'Registrar and Secretary'). Put your request in writing and detail who you've been dealing with and for how long.

How long ago were you at Uni? In theory your official record should still be available, although probably archived somewhere not immediately accessible. So, sounds like it's 'lost' and, therefore, Uni has a responsibility to provide the information you need by whatever alternative means possible.

It looks like what you need is something that confirms the detail of your 4th year syllabus? That really shouldn't be too difficult to do as long as you get hold of the right person!

HTH

I left in 1990 so not that long ago webcrone. The thing I'm trying to find out is how pushy can I be? Are they doing me a favour or is it my right to have this info?

Good tips from you both to go higher up though. I'd thought about the registra as my next step but didn't know if I could go higher, certainly never heard of this "visitor" position.

There's a few to try next before the 'Visitor' who primarily deals with serious complaints and appeals that Universities have failed to resolve.

I'm not sure of your 'rights' but I do think that you are absolutely entitled to push for the information you need. I've worked in University admin and whilst I can believe that there may be a reason why the detail of your personal record is proving hard to locate (though it shouldn't be - archiving generally involves microfiching the paper record, and probably storing on electronic media these days) providing formal confirmation of what you studied should not be difficult.

I looked at Brunel's website. It said: The University has a Records Manager and an Information Access Officer who are responsible for handling the University's records and archives and who respond to requests under the FOI Act and the Data Protection Act. So might be worth a phone call here?

Now I feel a bit stupid - I should have looked there shouldn't I .

The assistant reg I have been dealing with (although she is reluctant to answer my E mails) offered me a freedom of information record check. She said it would give access to other records the university were holding eg references they wrote. She made it clear that this file held no detail of my 4th year studies though. She also said that all third parties would have to be checked with before I could be given anything out of the file. Sounds like more waiting to me and no Transcript at the end of it.

Aha, there's another thread. The checking with third parties bit sounds a bit suspect under FOI doesn't it? There's a time limit that applies so they shouldn't really be fannying around.

I don't understand the 'checking with third parties' bit in this context. I can't remember when the requirement to issue full transcripts was introduced - sometime in the 90's. If you didn't get a full transcript at the time of your graduation then it's unlikely that a full transcript can be provided now, but if what's needed is info on WHAT you studied, rather a breakdown of marks for each subject, this aint rocket science!

BTW Assistant Registrar doesn't mean that much - it's more an indicator of grade than anything else. Any idea what area this person works in? You need someone in student records/student systems, or something like that. universities have to provide this kind of information ALL THE TIME!!!

I've had a look at the website now Webcrone. I cant find any staff names let alone the records manager. Can you point me in the right direction?

doesthe uni have a book that lists everyone who gratualted & with what degree? Most universities have this. Should be in the library and perhaps someone could check it for you?

I was given my transcript rolled up inside the tube with my degree in it. I'm shocked the uni doesn't have this information.

Have you contacted the department you studied in? Surely they would have records of what courses were taught, or old prospectuses etc. I realise that might not be enough, but it might be a start. The alumni association may be able to help, maybe someone you studied with has their transcript.

Also, when I started teaching and applied for jobs I had to list what I studied in each year of uni - if you have, or could get, old copies of application forms, would they have the information on them. I never had to give marks or grades for specific modules, just the overall degree awarded, and the list of what subjects.

I graduated in 1990. I don't think a transcript was standard issue then - I'm too old you see

I'm shocked that they seem unable to get this info too . If I was a doctor peoplles lives may depend on someone accurately checking me out. As I'm a teacher they obviously can't give a stuff.

My faculty was on a bit of land in Runnymede near Windsor. The University has just sold it for 45 million so I guess the records have been moved to the main campus in Uxbridge (or trashed )

If I knew I had a right to this info I could get a little heavy with them, perhaps even use a solicitor but I don't want to wind them up if they are doing me a favour. 6 months is a long time though isn't it.

The "visitor" thing has now been replaced by the Office of the Independent Adjudicator (SP?) and I'm not convinced this is really the place to go for this sort of complaint.

Transcripts weren't the norm in the early '90s so it could be that they genuinely don't have one and are not being difficult. Central registries were not always given students' complete list of marks by schools either, the whole idea of transcripts, centralised databases for students records etc. is very new.

I'm an Assistant Registrar and used to be based in the Registry (but not Brunel!).

Yes you can them from them. Explain why you need the transcript for all 4 years.

We got ours from a University and although they mentioned it would take a while, just kept chasing them until they finally did it.

They do have to hold the records, might not be on the computer system and they will have to hunt archives but if you keep asking then they will eventually do it.

I know Scotland are quite strict and need this information if you want to teach secondary. Just keep explaining to the Uni that you need the details. If not see if the Scottish authority can get onto the case for you.

Universities are notoriously slow at sorting things out. I know, I work in one. Keep pestering. The one thing that is lurking in my mind, however, is that there may be no requirement to keep records of this nature for longer than 6 years, in fact it may even be a requirement under the Data Protection Act NOT to hold such records on people for longer than this, so you may not have any rights to demand this information. But as I said keep pestering. Did you have a course leader or personal tutor that you could contact, someone who was directly involved in your course? i.e. go lower rather than higher up the food chain because those with more distance from the issue may not give it the necessary attention?

I'm not sure there is any legal requirement to keep records that old, though they do have a responsibility to make sure any records they do keep are correct.
The Data Protection Acts were designed to be useless, so forget that.

However, this does look rather embarassing for Brunel, and in my experience or large organisations embarrassment is far more powerful than any appeal to fairness.
I'd lift some names from the education sections of the nationals, and call them up. It's a good little story.
I cannot believe you are alone, and would bet money others are affected. Thus to make it a good story, Brunel have a Alumni website.
Ask there.
There are several possible outcomes.
1: You find others, and makes for a better story.
2: They are embarassed and sort it out.
3: If you are really lucky they will delete
your question. This makes the story so much jucier, as Keele has found out.

Don't even think of fighting fair.

If I were you, I would write to the Vice Chancellor. Point out that if they want to foster good relations with their graduate body (which all universities do these days, as they want to fundraise from you etc) then it would be in their interests to get it sorted out. I don't think there is a legal responsibility but they do have a moral obligation and they should also have an eye on their reputation - PR.

Also - does Brunel have an Archives dept? I work in a University too and Archives here is separate from Registry.

I really think your best chance is with the School you were based in. Honestly, the whole transcript thing is new and in 1990 centralised records were scanty, the centre quite possibly never saw your module mark breakdown, there was no reason for them to.

I agree it is rubbish that they are taking so long to sort this out and have not offered you any help but if they genuinely don't have the records (and that's what it sounds like) they can't just make them up.

Presumably you remember what you did ?

How about writing to them with an honest list, and getting them to stamp it ?