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Original poster

DWP FRAUD Dept!

42 replies

Guardsman18 · 03/06/2018 11:40

Hi, I am hoping someone is on here who can help me with a problem I have regarding Job Seekers Allowance and being asked to pay it back.

Last year I was on JSA, had some money in a pension (£15000) which after tax became £13000 something). I then had a downstairs loo put in with the money. When asked at the Job Centre whether I had savings of £16,000 or more, I truthfully replied that I didn't.

Fast forward to February of this year and the DWP Fraud dept are saying that the tax office has told them that as I had more than £16000, I should not have claimed JSA. (Bearing in mind that I am aware that HMRC would have notified different departments that I had this money as I had paid tax.)

I am no longer on JSA but they are insisting that as I had over £160000 from Jul 17 - Mar 18, they want the money back. HMRC have no idea where this figure has come from and getting hold of them is nigh on impossible.

I rang the Debt Management Team who already have the debt in their system! A part of me feels like not bothering to argue and offer a small amount each month, if they accept it that is.

On the other hand, they are just wrong aren't they? They agree I am not a fraudster and that I just made a mistake.

Has anybody else been involved with them? Thank you

OP posts:
lornathewizzard · 03/06/2018 11:43

I don’t know if you’ve typo-ed the bit at the end but from what you’ve said, you haven’t made a mistake, they have? Presumably you can provide bank statements showing the savings account? I would defo start by doing that

ArnoldBee · 03/06/2018 11:43

If you had over £6k in savings then your benefit entitlement may have been affected. Spending it in your downstairs loo is deprivation of capital which needs to be taken into account. If after reading the benefit rules you were not entitled to the money then pay it back whether it's a mistake or not is irrelevant.

frasier · 03/06/2018 11:45

Who made the mistake, them or you?

I’m a bit lost!

lornathewizzard · 03/06/2018 11:46

But yes if they’ve asked how much savings you had and then you didn’t tell them then that is your mistake. If they only asked about over 16000 then that’s different

AnchorDownDeepBreath · 03/06/2018 11:50

When you sign on; you agree to let them know about any changes in circumstances, including coming into money. Although you can claim benefits with up to £16k; the amount you receive is tapered down if you've got over £6k.

Have the fraud dept made contact about the omission; or just the debt people wanting to be repaid?

Original poster
Guardsman18 · 03/06/2018 11:53

DWP are saying I made a mistake.

The fraud dept have written to me. I was asked if I had more than £16000 in savings and answered no, which I didn't.

OP posts:
Failingat40 · 03/06/2018 11:54

It's savings over £6000 to my knowledge including any shares/property. It's one of the main questions that are asked when you attend for the new claims appointment.

The DWP systems are becoming more 'joined up' with other financial institutions so this type of fraudulent claim by lying by omission will become easier to catch.

All you can do is comply with every letter you get and start saving money to put aside to repay the debt.

flashnazia · 03/06/2018 11:57

Could you have claimed contributions based JSA instead? You can claim that if you have savings but it's for 6 months only I think.

Original poster
Guardsman18 · 03/06/2018 11:59

Thanks for the information, but I haven't lied or made a fraudulent claim!

The letter states savings over £16000 which I didn't have.

OP posts:
RhinoBlue · 03/06/2018 11:59

But did you tell them you had pension money?

Original poster
Guardsman18 · 03/06/2018 12:11

No I didn't Rhino. Why would I? Maybe I'm daft but if someone asks me if I have over x amount of money, the answer is either yes or no. I wouldn't think to reply - no, but I do have ££.

I am prepared to pay it back, but i really think they should have their figures right first! If it is £6000, then I can work with that, but they are using what seems to be a random figure from HMRC (which they say they haven't given them) which is over £16000.

OP posts:
Yokatsu · 03/06/2018 12:14

Have you the proof of the amount in the savings? Can you send that to them

Jonbb · 03/06/2018 12:19

Ask for a mandatory reconsideration of the decision that you were not entitled to the js a then go to appeal. If you had anything in your current account that is added to the savings which might be how they reached their figure. When you appeal all the paperwork will be disclosed and you will see how they calculated or miscalculated. Hope that helps. If you have a la centre near you speak to them.

Jonbb · 03/06/2018 12:20

Law centre

gamerchick · 03/06/2018 12:23

*Guardsman18

No I didn't Rhino. Why would I? Maybe I'm daft but if someone asks me if I have over x amount of money, the answer is either yes or no. I wouldn't think to reply - no, but I do have ££*

It asks for all information about any money you have. Why didn't you tell them about the pension?

RhinoBlue · 03/06/2018 12:23

Did you have any other small amounts of money? Because they add it altogether.

I usually tell them about all my money so I don't get caught out. I would definitely have told them about a 15k pension fund.

ajandjjmum · 03/06/2018 12:27

Why are you paying tax on your pension?

Why are you using pension money for other things?

reallybadidea · 03/06/2018 12:34

A pension fund doesn't normally count as capital for benefits purposes. It sounds as though by withdrawing the money from your pension it then became seen as capital (savings). I would check with the citizens advice bureau but unfortunately I think you've made a bad decision by withdrawing your pension while on JSA.

SluttyButty · 03/06/2018 12:48

So you had a pension and cashed it in, then spent it on a new downstairs loo? Is that correct?

Then you should have told them that you then had money, that money should have been used to live on rather than claiming JSA shouldn't it?

Original poster
Guardsman18 · 03/06/2018 12:56

Yes I guess you're right Slutty. Financial advisor said different.

It still doesn't explain where they got this £16000 + amount from though.

OP posts:
Rocinante1 · 03/06/2018 13:03

I assume your current accounts had more than £0 in them? How much did you have in total- money in the bank plus your pension.

Also, even though you were 'entitled' why did you claim when you had money to live on? If you were leaving it in your pension to accrue more foenyour retirement, that would be one thing. But you cashed it in and then spent it. Why didn't you spend it on living costs, instead of claiming money you didn't need. And what are you going to donwhen you retire nowbthat you've taken a chunk from your pension?

BlackGlossTwist · 03/06/2018 13:31

No I didn't Rhino. Why would I?

Every time you signed on, you certified that your circumstances hadn't changed. They had.

It's quite likely that if you had a £15k payout; at one point, you had £16k or over across all accounts. But even if you didn't; you still certified that nothing had changed...

Original poster
Guardsman18 · 03/06/2018 13:36

Current accounts didn't have thousands in them to make it go from £13000 to over £16000. Yes, I could have lived off it and then after it was gone, claimed benefits then.

I was told that if I had less than £16000, then I could claim JSA. If I'm wrong, that's fine. I just didn't have the figure that they claim I had. I haven't exactly treated myself! I still drive an old banger. It's a toilet!

OP posts:
SluttyButty · 03/06/2018 13:38

£16k is a lot more than you get on jsa per annum. You had funds to live on but chose to not declare it when you attended the job centre and spend it on something that was not essential.

I am a ferverent advocate for people on benefits. A lot have to use food banks, choose not to heat their homes so they can afford the bare minimum essentials. But you had a new loo fitted. Can you see what you have done is very wrong?

EveningHare · 03/06/2018 13:41

A toilet is an essential? Is in my books
You don't replace them for fun