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Find financial and money saving discussions including debt and pension chat on our Money forum.

Find financial and money saving discussions including debt and pension chat on our Money forum.

Money matters

cutting a very large story short, my dad's got dementia and probably needs to get some type of outside care. mum dragging her heels.

23 replies

cutekids · 13/05/2007 16:17

they've always had seperate money and the house is in my dad's name.she doesn't have power of attorney as yet even though we've registered for it. seems to think that she'll lose her home if dad has to go into care. etc.etc.etc.
anyone know exactly what can happen?
apparently,they both have a "good amount" in the bank too which would "work against them". i know this is all a bit vague, but if anyone really knows their stuff,please could you give me something that i can advise her on. (she's not one for listening to me or anyone else and she's not the type to sign any money over where it can be hidden as it "can be traced back by seven years"!!!

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mosschops30 · 13/05/2007 16:20

I will watch this too cutekids. My Dad was diagnosed with Parkinsons 7 years ago, but after a lot of shoving by me, he has now been told he was misdaignosed and has probably got dementia

its very hard I know, getting any sort of services so will lurk if your dont mind

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cutekids · 13/05/2007 16:22

Strangely enough,mosschop,my dad's been diagnosed with dementia but according to his physiotherapist has also got Parkinsons!!!keep lurking !

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cutekids · 13/05/2007 16:23

does your dad live alone or does or are you his carer? if you don't mind me asking!

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Blandmum · 13/05/2007 16:23

You would be wise to get some formal advice, I think. The law has changes since my mother went into a hospital due to her dementia.

At that time, you could have to pay for are in a nursing home (but not a hospital) to a limit of £8000 left. My understanding was that if the family home was shared by a spouse it couldnt be sold out from under them.

You would be wise to contact socila services and ask what assiatance is available for your mother.

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cutekids · 13/05/2007 16:25

Thanks MB.Do you know how the law stood if the house was only in my dad's name?

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cece · 13/05/2007 16:29

mosschops30

Your dad may well have Parkinson's but with Lewy bodies disease as well. This is a type of dementia that can occur with Parkinson's. My FIL has both . If you google it there is a lot of info on it.

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cutekids · 13/05/2007 16:32

Yes,that's what my dad was originally diagnosed with too.Dementia with LewyBodies.
However,they now believe he has Parkinsons. Mind you, I don't think there's a great difference between any of these diseases.i.e:Dementia,Alzheimer's,Parkinsons etc. Unfortunately,they haven't found that miracle-cure for any of them as yet.

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mosschops30 · 13/05/2007 16:59

Well they dont think he has parkinsons at all now as he has no symptoms since weaning off the medication. Lewy Body disease has been mentioned, it has some Parkinsonism traits to it doesnt it?

My parents live together but my mum finds it very draining. She does have POA but they find it hard to access services as he maintains theres nothing wrong and is still in denial.

I have worked my ass off getting him seen by various locl people, I live 200 miles away so its not easy. Also spoke to his GP, and managed to get him to stop the driving which was worrying me

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cutekids · 13/05/2007 17:07

sounds very similar to us.
strangely enough, the "Parkinsons" symptoms came about when my Dad's specialist upped his medication. He was taken into hospital about 3 months ago and the Doctors took his medication right down as they reckoned it was making him worse. However,what does his consultant do as soon as he's out...puts it up again...! I think-it's a shame I know-that the Docs use trial and error with their medication until something "suits" the patient and the carer.

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Wags · 13/05/2007 22:11

My Dad also has Parkinsons, was diagnosed when he was 59. He is now 77 and was diagnosed with Lewy Body dementia about 4 years ago. Unfortunately he has now reached a stage where my Mum can't care for him in the home and he is about to go into a nursing home . This link explains loads about payments and entitlements and what happens to your house etc Age Concern . I got the link from a thread on the Carers section so have a look there as well. Also speak to the solicitor who is handling the power of attorney and see if they can advise you on the money front.

I can sympathise with you, my Mum has always been a 'coper' so has tried to hide a lot of how my Dad was from us. Each time I saw him I couldn't understand how bad he was when Mum always said he was 'OK, not too bad, up and down'. I kept thinking I must only see him on the down days. After his last fall and much more sudden mental decline she finally admitted that by facing up to how ill he was also meant facing the fact that the miracle she hoped for a cure also wouldn't happen. Very sad for everyone.

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cece · 13/05/2007 22:40

Yes it is a terrible desease isn't it

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mosschops30 · 13/05/2007 22:41

Wags so sorry that you and your family have been through this. Its terribly painful I know.

My mum has had thoughts of nursing home for my father but he refuses at present. I wish I could do more for them, I think my mum needs to look after herself more but he makes her feel guilty if she goes out alone. The other day I forced her to go to a local country house and sit on the grass and read a good book, which she did and loved and when she got back he said 'i suppose thats trying to punish me is it' its very frustrating

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cece · 13/05/2007 22:47

Oh that is exactly the sort of thing my FIL says must be the demntia as he wasn't like that before

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TheMoistWorldOfSeptimusQuench · 13/05/2007 22:56

Hi cutekids & mosschops. Sorry to hear that you are having to cope with this. My dad also has dementia.

Social Services won't make your Dad sell the house if he goes into residential care, as your mum is also living there & therefore should continue to live there. If your Dad has over £21.5k in savings, he will probably have to fund his care himself. If he has less, SS will contribute, following an assessment of his needs (& assuming those needs make him eligible). If he has nursing needs (eg. wound care, complex manual handling needs, colostomy etc) the NHS are also obliged to contribute, whatever his financial situation. If he is considered to be terminally ill, or has complex & unpredictable needs, the NHS may even fund the whole lot under what's called "continuing care".

However, it's unlikely that Social Services would reccommend moving your dad to a home at this point - they would probably look at trying to arrange care at home plus additional support for your mum first, as residential care is usually considered the last resort these days.

I would suggest that you call your local Social Services older People's Team (phone the Council & ask to be put through). You can have an informal chat with a social worker & can request an assessment for your Dad too, if you think it would help.

Wish you the best of luck
xxx

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winestein · 13/05/2007 23:00

It can depend where your parents live. My dad died just before Christmas and I took my mum to see her financial advisor just after he got sick (he had multiple infarct dementia but died of cancer btw).

We transferred all but a little of the money into my mums name on the basis of advice from my parents financial advisor. He told us that my mum would not lose her home, but she was a joint owner, but at the end of the day it was something that, depending on the local authority, a source that can be be tapped.

I would advise your mum to find an independant financial advisor, such as the one my mum (and dad) has/(had) before power of attorney rights are granted. And to get smart to the undertones of what that financial advisor might advise/not be able to advise on professional grounds.

s h a n c o @ a n o t h e r . c o m

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mummypoppins · 14/05/2007 18:45

winestein I must disagree. You should not be talking to a financial adviser who is only in it for the money they can invset to earn commission !

Cutekids you should consult a solicitor who specialises in elderly client care. Try an organistaion called Solicitors for the elderly ( google them ). I am a member and will happily advise but that is not a plug for work.

This area is a minefield and you need to know what you are doing. Your mum will not lose the house as she will be classed as a dependant relative but some of their savings and pension income may be assessed and they will need to contribute. You mum must get an enduring power of attorney ASAP.

Once the issue of the care and who is paying for it is reslved then is the time to consult a financial adviser but only one who is recommended. there are a ot of sharks out there.

Hope that helps. CAT me if you want.

Dawn

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winestein · 14/05/2007 20:11

Fair point Mummypoppins - there are a lot of sharks out there (Just not the one my mum and dad had/mum has. He was a source of astute financial advice at that time but my mum and dad had been investing through him for years).
Are you sure about the house? - albeit on the basis of the financial advisors advice they can apparently eventually look at the house depending on longevity of care and it can be used to pay for care - but Cutekids mum can not be thrown out of it. It is kids and grandkids who will lose out there as I understood it. Is this wrong?

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Tamum · 14/05/2007 20:18

cutekids and mosschops, my dad has LBD too. Have either of your fathers been offered one of the Aricept family of drugs? The results in LBD are far far better than in Alzheimer's (there are several very good papers on this). My father has improved enormously on them. My grandfather had the same thing, and I think balancing the right amount of dopamine type drugs is very hard- my dad tipped right over into Parkinsonian symptoms bfeore they decreased the dose. Sorry I can't help with the legal stuff but I do sympathise.

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mummypoppins · 16/05/2007 12:15

Sorry been away for a while...............no winstein you are not wrong. If mum dies and leaves dad in care and the house empty then it becomes vulnerable and would be taken into account and sold to fund care. Too late to change this now as dad is not cpapble of transferring into joint names.

If any mners have parents where one is in the r=early stages of dementia then get some legal advice as it is possible to protect half the house at least in these circs. CAT me if you want any more info.

Dawn

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cutekids · 16/05/2007 13:58

i've just come back to the website and was amazed at all the advice you've given!
THANKYOU!
however,it is all such a minefield and i'm pretty useless when it comes to finances as it is!
I will take a bit of everyone's advice to my Mum and see if there is anything that can be done to help her with this.

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cutekids · 16/05/2007 14:01

sorry,mp,do i take it then that because my mum does not have her name on the house,that she could have it pulled from underneath her? or is it just if my mum were to "go" first,then the house would be "taken"???

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mummypoppins · 16/05/2007 14:23

Cutekids........only if Mum dies first. She has a right to live in it as a dependant relative ut if she dies the Local Authority will want it to pay for dad's care.

The way round this would have been to transfer into their joint names as tenants in common and then each other leave their half on trust so as to protect the capital. Costs of this and wills and EPA's would be about £1,000 all up with VAT and Land registry fees so you may have not wanted to do it anyway but it would have protected at least half the house.

It is a minefield I am afraid. If you want details of a solicitor who can advise ou let me know where you live and I will find one for you.

Dawn

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cutekids · 17/05/2007 09:28

thankyou Dawn.
i will have a chat with mum at the weekend and keep you in mind. thankyou very much for your advice so far.

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