would i be in legal trouble if..............

[cylonbabe]

i took the kdis and went to live in pakistan with my parents?
marriage is shot to hell, ( im'm stitch btw) and am sick of living like this.
at my parents we would have a roof over our heads, a happy atmoshere to live in. but would be just as dependant on dh financially as now. i wouold also lose my child benefit, such as it is, and would have to be paying school fees etc. im scared but confidenet i could get a job to earn some money towards life, but would still be fairly dependant on him.
he wont agree to us going. he doesnt even think there is a problem between us, except that i coz. long story.
or i could just divorce him outright. which could also be a long winded process coz he would be a right git.
does anyone know the legal problems i might cause myself if i move to pakistan?
tia

If you are not divorced, you may be able to do this and your dh would have to take steps to get you back.

If you are divorced and have a residency order in your favour, you would not be able to remove the children from the country for longer than one month without either his permission or a court order.

thank you freckle. so if iim going to do this, then i should do it before getting adivorce?
when you say steps to get me back? would i be in criminal trouble? im thinking of being accused o f kidnapping?

Well, this isn't an area with which I am familiar. But I would have thought that, as the child's parent and with no court order in force stating otherwise, there is nothing to stop you taking your children abroad. Your dh may be able to apply to the courts to have the children returned to the UK, but I'm not sure how that works, particularly if the other country is not a signatory to the Hague Convention - which Pakistan is not, I think.

How would you proceed with a divorce once abroad? Were you married here or in Pakistan? If you have to get divorced in England, the court may make an order demanding the return of the children. But this really isn't an area where I feel comfortable speculating.

thank you for your advice freckle.
i was married in pakistan, but have lived here since we got married. adn tbh, am scared stiff of living in another country.
i'm not sure he would apply to the courts to have us come back, as he wouldnt want to have tot take care of the kids on his own. iyswim.
he is more likely to refuse to pay for air fare to go there, and refuse to pay for living expenses there.

It would be illegal as you have joint custody at the moment. It is illegal until you have full custody over the children, which I doubt you will ever have unless he by court is seen as an unfit parent and the court grants you full custody.

Don't count on him not wanting to fight to get the children back. My sister left the father of her children, and he is now doing everything he can to get full custody over them, just to spite her (she has always been the one taking care of the children/taking time off her work/cleaning/cooking/working full time etc., he has a full time job, comes home sits down and expects dinner to be ready, and everybody to be quiet and well behaved because he has had a really hard day). It is not a nice situation.
Please go see a solicitor, and talk to your husband to get an agreement in place before you do anything like moving abroad. I know it seems like an easy solution just now. Also think of the situation you will put your children in please. They would probably still want to see their father.

is their anyway that i can make it clear that i am going there only because it is the only place i feel i can provide them with a healthy emotional atmosphere to live in?

normally he doesnt pya the slightest bit of attention to anything i say, but right now, whilst typing my last message, i told him i wasnt going to continue living like this and i thnk he actually heard me. so i have finally got through to him i think, but need to consider what to do next.

maise, i dont think its an easy option at all. in fact it seems far more final to me than a divorce.
ive been to see a solicitor, but not about moving abroad. it was about my option s regarding a divorce. one of the things she pointed out to me was that the kids would see more of their dad if we did get divorced, as he would be trying harder.

if he doesn't want you to go then surely he would refuse to pay for your living costs?

there is nothing stopping you taking them if you have Dual residency but he could take legal action to force you to return, how successfull this owuld be very muc depends on teh circumstances and various other factors.

i think it is a very drastic step and you should think very carefully about the financial implications first.

Are you both the same nationality? Or are you Pakistani and he English?

It's just that, if you are both Pakistani and you were married in Pakistan, that might make a difference even if you have lived here since your marriage. It may even be that the English courts might have no jurisdiction over you.

You really do need to seek specialist legal advice on this point.

okie, specialist legal advice it will be then.
whilst we are both british, he is by birth, whilst i am through descent. he was brought up here, i was brought up in the middle east. he isnt from pakistan. i am.
any suggestions on who to go to? i live in surrey.

mamazon, he is a nightmare to get living costs out of even now, whilst living in the marital home.

there is a firm of solicitors in Croydon that are excellent...but it depends on where abouts in Surrey.

If your nearer me than i have the most amazing barrister and solicitor, he is based in Cowfold (Horsham)
If either of those would be of help CAt me and i will giev you the details.

both do legal aid work as well if that helps

You can do a search on the Law Society website to find a solicitor local to you. You need to check whether you will need legal aid and then find out if the solicitors in question have expertise in "mixed" marriages (i.e. marriages where other jurisdictions might have an interest).

yes please, i can do both croydon or horsham.
its not letting me cat you for some reason.
im saadusatti at yahoo dot co dot uk

sending the details over to you now.

GRR.
the email has come back undelivered and it wont let me CAt you either.

erm try and email me and i will reposnd...see if that works.

[email protected]

Sorry Cylonbabe, I did not mean to say that this is going to be an easy decision for you to make. It is probably going to be one of the hardest ever. I wish you did not have to make this decision.

I have always been a believer that parents should not stay together if both or one of them ain't happy, that is not going to make the children happy. My sister's children are so much happier now that their parents don't live together. He is forced to take a more active role in the children's lives now, and my sister gets some well deserved breaks.

I do believe that your children have a right to see their father, whether he is a good father or lousy (depending on the level of lousiness of course). You did choose a british man, and you both chose to live in Britain, so I think it would be unfair if you took the children to live abroad without the father.

thank you maise. i dont really want to go to pakistan. i persoanlly havent lived their except between the ages of 7 and ten, and the first three years after being born! its an option i thought i should look into. there are a lot of pluses to it, but i didnt realise any of the legal implications.