Lasting Power of attorney advice

[tuliped]

I'm looking into arranging a LPA for my dad. I'm not sure if it's exactly what is needed or if there is something else more appropriate.

My dad is 77 (married but living separately) and lives in sheltered accommodation. His health is poor and he's quite deaf. He struggles to deal with his financial affairs, he struggles to understand things and even with a hearing aid cannot have a two way conversation. I live 200miles away so most of our communication is via the phone which is very challenging. I do have concerns about his memory. He thinks he hasn't spoken to me for 2 weeks sometimes when it has actually been 2 days and he called me at 8.30 on morning thinking it was evening. He's not like this all the time.

I need to make phone calls on his behalf quite often but there is always a stumbling point that they don't have his permission to speak to me etc, is a LPA the answer?

Also would his wife be able to over-rule any decisions I make? (They do have contact but she has a personality disorder and he couldn't cope living with her, she is living in a separate home where she is cared for)

Speak to a solicitor. LPA will help but you will need to tell all the organisations that you have it and they will probably want proof, it's still a bit of a pain. You can get 3rd party mandate on his bank account with his permission, that can be really helpful.

Not a solicitor, but I would suggest that you get him to formalise the separation, so that his wife cannot get involved. Don't know whether there is a mechanism for making you his legal next of kin?

If he is getting confused, you may need to act on the POA promptly, while he has capacity.

I hate to say it, but it sounds like the beginning of dementia to me. In which case, getting a P of A in place asap could prevent all sorts of headaches later. Once dementia is more advanced, it's quite common for sufferers to become suspicious of family members' motives - 'You're just after my money!' - and refuse to agree to it.

My mother had very sensibly set up an old-style P of A long before she got dementia, but once we needed to activate it, since she was no longer capable of managing money and a large sum had already gone missing, she was extremely suspicious and difficult.

If it's left too late, because the person won't agree or no longer has the capacity to do so, you have to go through the Court of Protection for deputyship, which is a lot more expensive and can take ages - and meanwhile you still have the hassle of not being able to deal with banks, etc.

I'd agree that it's better to get the LPA in place now, whilst he has done capabilities. Also speak to the solicitor about POA for medical matters.
The POA can then be logged/registered with the appropriate people (e.g., council, banks) along with your ID, and you should be able to deal with things on his behalf.
I have financial POA for a relative, put in place before their health started to decline (dementia), but don't have medical/health and now it's not permitted as relative doesn't have capacity to consent to it.
The fact that relative is confused by doctors, etc. and has no idea what they are advising, what medication is prescribed, or why, can be problematic.

I agree with PPs, you really do need to set up an appointment for a solicitor or will writer to meet and take instructions. If they are confident that he still has capacity they'll act as his Certificate Provider.

If they have doubts, they will need to get a letter from a doctor confirming whether he has capacity. If it's' early stage Alzheimers he will have good and bad days but so long as he understands the purpose and scope of the LPA and isn't making it under duress or mistake, he hopefully has time to get it in place.

He needs to appoint at least one attorney (probably you) and I usually advise my clients to appoint a backup. He also nominates a Person to be Told, such as an old friend or sibling, of the intention to register the LPA.

I do strongly recommend that you don't just print off the forms, fill them in and tell him to sign. By having a lawyer involved, whether that's a qualified will writer or solicitor, if there's any argument about validity down the line, you can't be accused of duress. You should not be present at the meeting between your dad and the lawyer, and not otherwise involved except in setting up the appointment unless your dad specifically instructs the lawyer to cc you in to emails and otherwise keep you informed.

There are 2 types of LPA, Property & Financial, and Health & Welfare. The Property & Financial one is the priority, but often firms will charge q a bit less to do H&W at the same time as there's a lot of repetition of info.

Just to add that the Certificate Provider, if there's the remotest doubt on capacity, should be a doctor.

It might be a good idea for your dad to see his doctor and have a capacity assessment, the doctor could also sign the financial power of attorney papers if dad has capacity and once registered you can start looking after his finances. With the financial one you don't have to wait until someone loses capacity as long as they tick the right box. You can get the POA paperwork from the Office of the Public Guardian, they send them to you free of charge. You can also ask your dad if you can be his next of kin and if he is happy for you to act on his behalf.
What sort of phone calls do you need to make on his behalf?
Is there a warden at his home who could help you with any of this, you don't need a solicitor, they will charge several hundred pounds for it.
Like a pp said you can ask for a third party mandate from his bank, with his permission that he has to sign, so you can pay bills, manage his money.
The health and welfare POA can also be discussed with your dad and his doctor but this doesn't come into force until someone loses the capacity to make decisions.

Just to clarify, the only reason I'm recommending using a lawyer is because he's married to someone who sounds like she may get awkward, so it's important that everything is done above board. I'm concerned that the wife could allege that the daughter has done this behind her back and complain to the OPG.

Otherwise, it's fine for most people to just do the LPAs online.

My dad is seeing his gp today, I called to arrange the appointment and asked if I could speak to the dr, unfortunately they can't speak to me until next week and then they won't be able to discuss specifics but will listen to my concerns, the receptionist put down that it was about memory loss, I wonder if the gp who sees him today will see this and mention something. I have asked him to speak to the gp about his memory about a year ago which he said he did and apparently he was fine, he was reluctant and has at times got very short with me accusing me of trying to get him certified mad! So I've dropped off mentioning the subject again but I'm still concerned. He had what he calls a slight fall a few days ago and has started to have 'wet' accidents.

Definitely do the POA and although it's cheaper to do it yourself use a solicitor if possible given it's a complicated situation. Ask them to include doing some certified copies into the price as you have to send the original or certified copies off to places you can't visit in person. I've also found several places (HMRC, GP etc) will put a note on the record if I speak to them with my Dad and he confirms he's happy for them to discuss personal directly with me, so you can put some of that in place next time you see him even without the POA.

tuliped my parents have Powers of Attorney registered but not yet put in to action. DM is beginning to show signs of loss of capacity but her GP is spectacularly unhelpful about this. However, they did give both of them a form to sign allowing Dr & I to talk to each other about their medical care. It's proved very handy last week when DM was behaving very oddly, turned out she had a UTI.
Might be worth seeing if your DF's doctor offers the same.

tuliped good call getting the GP appointment. Hopefully they can give you some feedback, even if they're not allowed to disclose full information right now.

I have a bit of an 'arrangement' with my retlative's GP. I'm the next of kin, so although I don't have the health/welfare LPOA, they can discuss in broad terms any issues/concerns/findings. Unfortunately relative does not live near me, so it's not possible for me to attend appointments most of the time.

Falls and 'wet' accidents were some of the beginnings of alzheimers/dementia (relative has both) which were picked up by the GP when they were admitted to their current care home. Their own GP had considered these things 'just a part of ageing'. [cross]

Tuliped I had POA for my Dad who had Alzheimers. His capacity was probably a bit iffy when he signed, but the G knew the family well and was happy to be a certificate provider. I did not use a solicitor. Having POA was absolutely essential, we'd have been stuffed without it, Dad was a widower and lived with my bro who has significant mental health problems. I had to take over all the bill paying, then the managing of carers, the managing of his home etc. Bro was quite happy to let me do this and ultimately trusted me/ was uninterested in finances anyway.
However what mumblechum says sounds wise. If your Dad's partner is apt to be tricky and fling accusations around then having the POA done by a lawyer will probably add extra robustness. Not wishing to be alarmist, but I would recommend doing it sooner rather than later as past a certain loss of capacity it will be impossible and you'll have to go down the deputyship route (a lot more expensive and time consuming).

As for GPs, they will usually be only too happy to find a relative is stepping forward when one of their patients is losing capacity. However, for them to be comfortable discussing confidential matters relating to their patient, they will either want the patient to put an authorisation in writing , or they will want to see a power of attorney for health and welfare.

Unfortunately my Dad has now had a stroke. He's unable to walk and is very week. How is it going to look now when I ask him to sign something like this?!

PoA can only be granted, not 'taken' IYSWIM.

You need to make sure that he is deemed to have capacity to make the decision to sign (does he understand what a PoA is? that there is a welfare PoA and a financial one? can he retain this information? does he want you to be his PoA?)

If he is now too unwell, then he can no longer grant PoA and you will need to apply for guardianship. It all depends on his cognitive function rather than his physical ability or frailty.

I am so sorry you and your father are going through this. I know it is very stressful and upsetting

I’m really sorry this has happened on top of everything else.
I hope he makes a good enough recovery, at least to be deemed to have capacity. He should be getting physio, speech therapy too if his speech has been affected. Is he on a stroke ward?

He's having scans etc tomorrow. He seems ok mentally, but we won't know exactly what has been affected until the results.

Can I just print off the paperwork and ask him to sign them and then register them? How awful do I sound!? I'm pretty sure he will understand what I mean but I'm worried about frightening him, he might think I'm expecting the worst.

I would leave it at least until at least a few weeks. Your poor dad has just had a stroke - it must be really frightening. Don't give him more stress. I wanted my late DPs to take out LPA but they never did, however, we managed. Luckily DMIL took out one ages ago when she was in great health, which is the ideal time.

Yes I would wait. Further down the line it could be challenged if it looked like he was not well when he signed. Also , you need a certificate provider. There may be a suitable person on his ward eg a speech therapist/ medical registrar might be willing to be a provider if they feel confident your dad has capacity.