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Original poster

FATHERS' RIGHTS..... recent separation advice needed re maintenance, access etc

24 replies

noonar · 22/04/2007 16:30

hi, this is probably not the most obvious place to ask for advice re fathers' rights, but i'm desperate to try to support my brother, who's just be thrown out by his wife.

a brief summary: they have 3 children aged 6 and under. his wife doesnt love him anymore. they argue alot. he has an unhealthy relationship with alcohol. he recently started drinking again , behind her back. she found out. threw him out. he's not an alcoholic as such, and can go for long periods without a drink, but has a v stressful job, and uses alcohol to cope at times.

anyway, he is now homeless and staying with our mum.

i have a few questions regarding his future:

can she dictate the terms of access to the children?

does he have to pay for the all the household expenses- food, mortgage, bills, her upkeep etc, so that she can maintain the same lifestyle, whilst he ends up in a bedsit?

is she entitled to a set percenatge of his income?

what if he cant afford to 'run' two homes? (she seems to think taht she gets to stay in their nice house, whilst he has to make all the financial compromises)

by the way, he wants to do the best for his daughters, but i just cant see him being able to keep up his well paid, high stress job if he's forced to live in a bed sit by himself, with only a low level alcohol problem to keep him company!

any advice gratefully received. sorry for rambling post, but am v worried about them all.

tia

OP posts:

Twinklemegan · 22/04/2007 16:56

All I can say, unfortunately, is that when my DH split with his ex nobody cared two hoots that he couldn't afford anywhere to live whilst he gave most of his income to his ex and her new husband. Sorry I can't be more positive.

edam · 22/04/2007 17:04

He needs to see a lawyer. And AA or a counsellor about the alcohol. You don't have to drink every five minutes to be an alcoholic but drinking in secret and needing it to cope are big red flags, I think. Drinking is certainly a problem if it has led to the breakdown of his marriage. And if he continues to drink that could cause problems wrt access.

Original poster

noonar · 22/04/2007 17:14

thanks edam and twinkle.

edam, i see your point, but he never drinks during the day, except at sunday lunch etc, but he might be inclined to have more than a healthy amount 'of an evening'. so i cant imagine thre is a issue about being a 'responsible adult' . he has been to AA, actually, but found that the others' drinking habits were in a totally different league to his own, so couldnt relate easily to their exp and some of the advice seemed not totally relevant to him, as his problem is not extreme. the alochol is a problem but one of the reasons he has been secretive is that 'DW' expects him to not drink AT ALL, so he drinks without her knowing, rather than face her wrath. if he was with mates, he wouldnt be secretive, if that makes sense.

also, does anyone know; will he have to pay for her upkeep, (as the children are small, so its not viable for her to work) or will she be entitled to benefits ?

OP posts:

ScoobyDooooo · 22/04/2007 17:18

She will be allowed to get benefits he does not have to pay for upkeep

Trifle · 22/04/2007 17:21

Why doesnt he just move back into the house? As they are married his wife has no more rights than he has to just simply chuck the other one out. Obviously if the relationship is so acrimonious then it wouldnt be a pleasant atmosphere for the children but he seems to be taking a very lilly-livered approach by simply accepting it and considering living in a bed sit.

Twinklemegan · 22/04/2007 17:21

If she goes on benefits he will be chased for maintenance by the CSA (she will not get a choice in this). Two children would be 20% of his income - not sure about 3. Her benefits will be reduced to account for his maintenance payments.

Original poster

noonar · 22/04/2007 17:54

thanks. he is also paying for all the mortgage, bill etc. will he have to pay this 20% (or whatever) on top of all the bills and mortgage? or is it up to her to take 20% of his earnings and top it up with benefits, in order to pay the bills?

she sent him a text this a.m. saying to make sure he pays the (new) car loan payment tomorrow! its her car! he doesnt drive it. she seems to think her life is not going to change, finacially, at all.

he doesnt want to force his way back in to the home, as he wants to keep it amicable for the children's sake.

and what about the house? its not paid for now, but will be in 10 years time. will she be entitled to half of it then, even though they separated before it was fully paid for??

OP posts:

Twinklemegan · 22/04/2007 18:48

I don't know tbh Noonar as it was a different situation with DH and I wasn't privy to it as I met him years afterwards. Instinct would tell me that he would probably have to pay the 20% despite any other arrangement they might have re the mortgage etc., especially since it sounds like the mortgage is in his name? If she doesn't go on benefits the CSA needn't be involved btw. But if she does, he will basically be paying her benefits instead of the government.

edam · 22/04/2007 18:53

Marital assets are usually split 50:50 so the house is half hers, AFAIK. And any divorce court will want to ensure the children are housed, even if they sell the house and spilt the proceeds. If she's at home with the children while he's at work, then they are both contributing equally, although one is paid by the outside world and one isn't.

Maybe worth looking into some help with alcohol that isn't AA, IYSWIM, if AA wasn't for him.

zippitippitoes · 22/04/2007 19:16

he needs to see a solicitor (as does she)

if I was him I would move back in

the benchmark is to split assets 50 50

they can reach their own agreements regarding finance and residence

they could have shared residence in which case maintenance for children is different

the children need a home but it is not necessarily the current one as it is expected that both partners need a home

there are lots of different scenarios but when a household splits it is highly unlikely that one partner will carry on with the same level of lifestyle at the expense of the second

Original poster

noonar · 22/04/2007 19:32

thanks so much for the advice. agree that he needs legal advice.

OP posts:

Original poster

noonar · 23/04/2007 14:36

been thinking about this some more. she decides she doesnt love him. he loses her, his home and his children. and he gets totally fleeced. now, aged 35 he faces renting a cheap flat and 'starting from scratch' in terms of building a home for himself. all because she doesnt want him any more.

is that fair??

OP posts:

yoda · 24/04/2007 15:51

Hi,

First off he should move back in. If both adults try to act like 'adults' the atmosphere should be at least tolerable. My dh did this for nearly a year and survived!

My dh was told by his solicitor that if he rented, it made it easier for the court to give the house to the wife and kids, as the bloke was 'managing' - ha!

The only other piece of advice is to get some books on divorce from the library and read up on his rights. Look after his children and the drinking and don't give an inch - the courts really do seem biased towards the women (in our experience)

persephonesnape · 24/04/2007 15:59

why doesn't she love him anymore? any ideas? is there possibly someone else? would she go to marital counselling etc?

i hate these threads because we never know the full story about why someone has left/been forced to leave.

20% of income for the two children - nothing extra for mortgage, outgoings etc - she'll probably find that she can't afford the same lifestyle anyway, even with 20% and benefits. we now live in a shitty litle ex authority house in an awful area because my ex left us. she won't be able to keep the house on 20% of an income if she was used to a far bigger share.

Caligula · 24/04/2007 16:06

He doesn't have any rights. His children do. Agree with others, he needs to see a solicitor.

Sometimes, AA isn't the best place for an alcoholic. Some alcoholics drink so much less than some of the people at AA, that they think they don't have a drink problem after all. (This is what happened to a friend of mine years ago, who went to AA, got reassured she couldn't possibly be an alcoholic because she didn't drink anything like the quantity the AA people did, and proceeded to piss away the next 5 years sinking deeper into alcoholism.)

Why is his wife so determined he shouldn't drink at all? That's very unusual in our culture.

FioFio · 24/04/2007 16:09

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn

Caligula · 24/04/2007 16:11

Well put Fio

Twinklemegan · 24/04/2007 23:05

I'm sorry, but everyone seems to have picked up on this poor guy's alcohol problem to the exclusion of almost everything else! Caligula - why doesn't he have any rights? The children's mother sure as hell will. I completely agree that the children come first, but he is their father - of course he has rights and I hope he can fight for them.

Caligula · 25/04/2007 13:44

No twinklemegan, in a divorce case the legal position is that neither of the parents have rights, only the children do.

Original poster

noonar · 25/04/2007 20:06

caligula, i was v interested about your friend. think hat my brother's sitaution may be similar in that he may having been 'wrongly reassured' that he doesnt have a problem.

twinkle, thanks for your support.

persephone, i'm sorry to hear about your situation, but not all men abandon their families. in my brother's case, SHE has thrown HIM out. he would never seek to deprive her or his children of their material rights. all this talk of percentages is just to establish if he will have enough money left to put a roof over his own head. it's not about giving them the bare minimum.

as far as why else they split up is concerned, i guess they are just not compatible. they bring out the worst in each other. she nags him like a dripping tap. he is patient. patient . patient. then sudeenly loses it. he can be an angry person. but not violent. the alcohol doesnt improve his mood. thats why its an issue.

all v sad.

i love my SIL and will miss seeing her. we planned to go away together in the summer. but i cant help but be angry at her. however unjustified or justified that may be.

OP posts:

Caligula · 25/04/2007 20:30

noonar that's such a common problem with alcoholism. That old joke that an alcoholic is someone who drinks more than you, is so true. As long as someone else drinks more, it legitimises the alcoholic's drinking. Hence the habit most alcoholics have, of urging people around them to have another drink, drink faster etc. My xp (who is an alcoholic) was so good at it that quite often other people who do not have a drink problem would get far drunker than him and so the next day he could feel quite comfortable that his drinking was normal. Now of course, his drinking is far worse.

That's why sometimes I think AA is not the best route for people who are at the beginning of a drink problem which might be brought under control with the right counselling etc. The AA philosophy is that you have to hit rock bottom before you're ready to recognise and solve your problem, but I sometimes think that if people recognised earlier on in the process that they had a problem, they wouldn't need to get to rock bottom.

Has it gone beyond any possibility of relationship counselling?

Original poster

noonar · 25/04/2007 20:45

i actually think they went to counselling a couple of years back, caligua.

she tells him she doesnt love him.

he's been sleeping on the sofa for a year. (he snores, they have a wakeful 10 mo). he didnt even qualify for a bed when he was at home. what can you say?

OP posts:

Caligula · 25/04/2007 20:46

Yep. Well beyond by the sounds of it.

How sad for you.

Original poster

noonar · 25/04/2007 20:51

it is

he went back home today to pick up the girls from school, give them tea and put them to bed. first time since he left. must ring him to find out how it went. he had a long journey home and has been commuting 1.5 hrs each way since he left.

in his absence, he's SIL has told their 6.5 yo that daddy doesnt live here anymore. but when he left on friday, thsy told the girls daddy was working away from home. not on, IMO.

OP posts:

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