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Universal Credit

39 replies

Undercoverbanana · 18/10/2017 08:20

Are we all going to be ok? Just that, really. I'm really worried about the social consequences of all this.

OP posts:
Babyroobs · 19/10/2017 19:48

Under tax credits things were difficult because payments were based on previous tax years figures so people ended up with huge overpayments. Now UC is based on 'real time' earnings but is still causing problems for other reasons, mainly the initial long wait for payment. Also people are expected to work more hours. the days of being able to just keep working minimal hours until your kids left education are gone, people will be expected to work more hours as their kids gets older to reduce reliance on benefits. I personally think this is a good thing in theory as long as jobs are available but obviously at the moment there are teething problems. I also suspect that people dealing with the claims don't really understand the new system and this is just making things worse.

Undercoverbanana · 20/10/2017 06:23

Totally agree that the system needed an overhaul but so does society itself. How did we get into this mess? Greed? Ineptitude?

Sinuhe - am not affected directly by UC but I AM affected by the society around me and I can see it is fucked. I want to help change things. I cannot abide these yawning inequalities and being "led" by these fuck-ups who have no clue.

OP posts:
Nanna50 · 20/10/2017 08:29

People believe that the current system is unsustainable because this is what we are constantly told. It is government ideology that dictates that the welfare budget is un-affordable and that it will be the poorest people who bare the brunt of cuts to this huge welfare bill. And these cuts have increased the number of working poor.

We rarely hear the fact that the majority of the welfare bill is paid to people of pension age. The housing benefit bill props up huge rents paid to landlords, the tax credit system subsidises business profits where employers pay low wages. The bill for Atos, Maximius and Capita is £hundreds of millions but the system is seriously flawed. And all systems are open to fraud and error, focusing on fraud, which is the minority, draws away from the reality.

When big employers in the care industry, retail and service industry etc declare big profits it is because they pay no more than the national living wage and their employees rely on top up benefits. If they paid a higher wage they would have less profit but the welfare bill would reduce. Meanwhile companies use legal loopholes to avoid paying tax therefore they put less into the very pot that their employees rely on.

You will find many arguments as to why business should not pay higher wages, should not have to pay some of their profits back into the welfare bill and can legally avoid tax. But not many arguments as to why the poorly paid worker on a zero hour contract shouldn't wait 6 weeks for a UC payment.

There is no cap on rents, some landlords have built empires on housing benefit. Some homes have ridiculously high rents and are in a bad state of repair. If the government introduced a law that private landlords who wished to rent out social housing had to cap the rent, the housing benefit bill would drop, as would landlord profit.

Instead, the government chooses to cap the housing benefit causing financial hardship for the lowest paid. And while they made a big noise about the bedroom tax, benefit cap and reducing housing benefit for under 35 year old's, they quietly, massively, increased funds for the discretionary housing payments otherwise some of the big social landlords would have gone bust.

The medical assessments have long been carried out by private companies who assess disabled people on a computer system of points rather than a qualified examination. There are many examples of where this system fails and peoples lives are devastated, including deaths. The cost of the appeals process and tribunals is £millions to the government and as the majority of the decisions are overturned, the system must be flawed and yet it is the claimant who is punished.

This is my perception, but benefit bashing has almost become a sport and allows the government to implement Dickensian policies and when challenged Theresa May orders Tory MPs to abstain to from voting.

sorry for the rant

Sinuhe · 20/10/2017 09:27

Nanna50- I was in receiving benefits (single parent with 2DC) about 6 years ago after i was made redundant. So I have not been brain washed by the media. I speak from experience.
The amount of money i was entitled to, was well above minimum wage. I didn't have costs associated with working like child care, running a car, work clothes... my time was my own no stress other than getting the kids to school.
No financial incentive to seek work at all. In fact I was worse off when I went back to work. I had to pay a % for child care, spend less time with my children, it's more stressful and i have to be super organised just to get through each day.

UnbornMortificado · 20/10/2017 09:45

"Luckily" we are exempt. Even without being on UC I had carers and housing benefit screwed up massively.

If I hadn't of had family to help us out financially and a very understanding landlord I would of been looking at being evicted. Wouldn't be arsed if it was just me but I have three DC including an oxygen dependant baby.

A lot of people don't have that support. It's easy to ignore things and think it won't happen to oneself. Then it does.

Nanna50 · 20/10/2017 12:47

Sinhue it wasn't personal my posts were a general answer. Six years ago the benefits were a lot more generous than today and I know that many people were and still are worse off in work hence my previous comment about making work pay being misleading.

UC is less generous, including making more demands on single parents (and others). There has been sustained cuts to all benefits, child benefit, tax credits, housing benefit, ESA, DLA etc , and someone in your position today would have very a different experience.

Again, my perspective, using benefit cuts and increasing child poverty does not seem like a fair way of balancing the welfare bill without looking at the other contributing factors.

Graphista · 20/10/2017 13:50

Abbsis WHERE are you getting your info? Completely inaccurate.

Sinuhe - ANY system is open to fraud none is perfect. But even under the old system there was actually very little benefit fraud. There's FAR more money lost to tax fraud yet FAR FAR fewer resources assigned to prevent that!

"We rarely hear the fact that the majority of the welfare bill is paid to people of pension age. The housing benefit bill props up huge rents paid to landlords, the tax credit system subsidises business profits where employers pay low wages. The bill for Atos, Maximius and Capita is £hundreds of millions but the system is seriously flawed. And all systems are open to fraud and error, focusing on fraud, which is the minority, draws away from the reality." And that's before you consider the tax cuts that have been given to the already wealthy!

"because people don't care unless they are directly affected by the change." This is true. Govt aren't completely stupid. Reason for gradual rollout isn't to 'adjust for mistakes' but because then there aren't a large number of people affected at the same time, therefore less likely to join together to protest - but we NEED to. People WILL be affected indirectly as well as directly as crime, addiction and homelessness are and will continue to increase.

I'm on a fb group for those on UC (I'm not yet but preparing for when I will be), many are working and the main issue is that it's impossible to budget as its a different amount each month because of how its calculated also some are saying the system can't cope if 2 months pay happens to fall in a one month UC period. Resulting in no payment at all.

The advance thing is a joke! UC is supposed to be backdated (so then you pay back the advance out of the backdate effectively) but again - not what's actually happening.

I was watching question time last night and the Tory was banging on the 6 week wait was like starting a new job - I've NEVER had to wait 6 weeks for first pay max a month but if you start halfway through the month you'd get paid after a couple weeks for a couple weeks. Even the CEO of next (a Tory supporter and contributor) said it should be paid in advance not arrears.

Tories are expecting everyone to work min 35 hours - not only are everyone's circumstances not compatible with that there aren't the jobs OR the childcare places available for that. They're doing NOTHING to create jobs or increase childcare places.

The tories don't care about anyone but their own never did never will.

ilovewelshrarebit123 · 20/10/2017 22:41

I’m not ok, I feel sick and scared.

I had to move over to UC when I changed jobs. I got emergency taxed for two months wages, which was given back as a lump sum (£400) in Septembers pay.

UC said this is income even though it was a rebate as I don’t earn enough to pay tax.

I’ve just received my first UC award today and it’s £0 yes nothing at all. I’ve waited 5 weeks with no benefits, and now I’m getting nothing this month.

So it will be 9 weeks with no money other than my wages. The UC lady said I should of budgeted my salary better. Shock I tried to explain my wages only just cover my rent and Council tax and I need to feed my DD and put petrol in my car to get to work. She then told me to go to my local authority.

They will not listen that the £400 was a rebate and my money so should be disregarded and they will not accept it. The £400 has gone as I’ve had to live off it and pay bills etc.

I’m praying it evens itself out in November or I don’t know what I’m going to do. I’ve always worked, never been unemployed and I feel the whole UC system is flawed.

Nanna50 · 21/10/2017 08:56

^^ This is one of the examples where UC is not flawed it is not fit for purpose. Another example is where an employer paid his staff early at Christmas and UC stopped for the claimant as they were deemed to have too high an income.

The roll out has identified many serious issues, this being one of them. The idea of using pilot areas is so that you can identify problems and rectify them before you move to the next roll out. But the government are pressing ahead regardless.

UC has been set up on the basis of everyone being monthly paid, however many low earners are paid weekly or 4 weekly. So this scenario also occurs when someone who is paid 4 weekly has 2 paydays fall within one calendar month so receives no UC and then the next month receives no child care element because the system states they are not working if they have no earnings.

As a pp said UC is being introduced slowly to calm the masses and the pilot areas have largely been in regions where there is little or no risk to the Tory vote.

welshrarebit your LA will have schemes set up to assist people in crisis, contact them to see what help you can receive. Go to your MP ask what help they can give you, demand that they keep putting pressure on the government.

Graphista · 21/10/2017 12:28

"Little or no risk to Tory vote" yep! I'm in Scotland - VERY few Tory voters here, they're already hated so they don't give a fuck about pissing us off!

Undercoverbanana · 22/10/2017 06:58

UC can only cope with people who are monthly paid? How is that a process that is deemed "fit for purpose"? Dear God. They gave NO FUCKING IDEA about the working lives of real people do they? I suppose they think they could sell a few shares to buy their Prosecco and avocados until the next payment comes through. FUCKERS.

Sorry for shouting. Not sorry for swearing.

OP posts:
SheRaaarghPrincessOfPower · 22/10/2017 07:31

Nanna - that was an excellent rant.

Sinuhe · 22/10/2017 11:03

No words for all the misery this causes. Even though I am for a FAIR CHANGE / REFORM of the benefits system.

Sinuhe · 22/10/2017 11:04

Posted to soon ... take your pick or start a real one!

petition.parliament.uk/petitions?q=Universal+credit&state=open

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