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Original poster

effing tax credits... Am I right to question this or should I just 'trust them' and pay up?

23 replies

preggerspoppet · 12/02/2007 14:48

Just had a phonecall from hm revenues people (not tax credit) telling me that I owe £500 odd from a tax credit overpayment in 2003.

we have already had 2 overpayments that we have paid back of similar amounts and now we don't get any wtc just child tc.

I asked them to expain the whys and wherefors but they couldn't..

I then phoned the 'help'line and asked them to explain but I still haven't had a decent explaination. they said it was due to a change in my circumstances that I had informed them about which led to me being overpaid. but by that much?

I feel I am never going to get a valid explaination, in a language I can understand, and so will just have to believe them

what do you think?

OP posts:

mumto3girls · 12/02/2007 14:52

No - they have to explain. Don't agree to pay until they give you a statement..4
years ago - honestly!!

Original poster

preggerspoppet · 12/02/2007 15:00

I know! I can't remember that far back. have asked for it al in writing but I can't pretend ever to understand those bloomin forms they send.

OP posts:

lovelymoo · 12/02/2007 15:20

There is aform you can fill out asking them to look into the overpayment. I asked them to look into a overpayment i had of around £1000 in one year, they then wrote to me saying it was an error their end someone had but the details on the computer wrong and i didn't have to pay it back. It took about 6mths for it to be sorted but def don't pay it back

Original poster

preggerspoppet · 12/02/2007 16:12

oh thats great thanks will do that now.

OP posts:

MascaraOHara · 12/02/2007 16:15

they're tossers, they are crippling me after they say I was over paid last year despite the fact that I todl them everytime I had a change in salary - they didn't always document it.

Eddas · 12/02/2007 22:34

The problem with tc people is they don't listen!! My boss(who's an accountant as am I) phoned them to say his wife no longer worked. They chagned his hours and pay to nil not hers. He phoned them back and said no mine is still xyz my wifes is nil, so they then changed both of them to nil!!! He got loads of money which he knew he wasn;t entitled too. He did try to tell them again but they said to wait til the tax year was over, then fill the form in(which he did) then he had to repay it all, of course as he knew it was wrong he'd kept it all to pay straight back!!! Bloomin silly though.

The whole system makes me laugh was much more simple to adj the tax code or via tax return form. Ah well that's helpful politicians for you!

Definately get them to write it down for you and don't pay til you understand it. There always seems to be someone on here who can explain things

Original poster

preggerspoppet · 13/02/2007 13:25

thankyou,

I find it strange how they can make an error and four years later thay can demand the money back.

my dh runs a business, he said yesterday if he made an error it would be unlikely that he could expect the money back from a custoer even the next day, let alone four years on. especially with no understandable reason!

saw on breakfast news today about a lady who was overpaid by quite alot and then they reduced her tc dramatically, so much so that she had to sell her house and go bancrupt.

since the first overpayment we had to pay back dh and I jusyt simply don't trust them to get it right, and were releived when we stopped being entitled to it.

OP posts:

ssd · 13/02/2007 13:37

mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

fought with these gits for ages, syill have to pay back £1350

got CAB involved, still got nowhere

good luck and keep a record of everything you send them

GreedyGecko · 13/02/2007 13:45

They cock it up every year.

I've just recently been to see my MP about this. There's a special MP hotline that they can use to speed things up.

I've been arguing overpayments every year since the bloody things started. They were telling me I'd been overpaid by £7K. Turns out there's over £10K they haven't paid me.

Ask for a printout of what you were due each year, and what you were actually paid each year. Check that all corresponds with wage slips & bank statements (time consuming I know, I had to photocopy 3 years of wage slips (2 of us bing paid weekly)). If not, see your MP.

GreedyGecko · 13/02/2007 13:46

Oh, and make sure everything is sent by recorded delivery.

LucyLemon · 13/02/2007 21:58

I had loads of trouble with them. I had just broken up with my then husband so I phoned them to let them know my change in circumstances. It was then that they decided I had been overpaid before. I had a letter threatening me with the bailiffs that arrived four days before Christmas. This was after I had made my first appeal which I hadn't heard back from.
After two appeals I went to the Independent Adjudicator. I won and they even sent me £25 as a gesture.
However, my case was slightly different as I wasn't strictly overpaid. It was the money that we would have been entitled to if, and a big 'if' here, we had sent the yearly forms in. They had failed to note our change of address so they posted them to our old address and we didn't know we needed to fill anything in. We worked overseas for the British government(still entitled!)and paid regular taxes, being overseas meant we didn't see the advertising campaign that runs yearly here and tax credits were in their first year.
So the money was ours really, but only if we had filled in the forms which we hadn't. Still, it was their fault as they were notified about our change of address and didn't change it on their system.

This wasn't the end of the story though. Another six months after I had received the gratuity and 'you won' letter, I got a demand for the full amount again! I nearly cried. Once again they hadn't logged it on their system and they had no record of it at all so I had to send them all the paperwork to prove it! Outrageous.
This all took over 18 months to clear up and for a year of that it was a massive black cloud hanging over my head.

Please try the Independent adjudicator...whatever your case. I thought mine was hopeless but they managed to make them see sense for me.

Original poster

preggerspoppet · 13/02/2007 22:06

lucy that is unbeleivable, how can they prove themselves to be so incompetant so many times in one case?
I do have another fear though, that if we have an indipendent inquirey into our case they might flag up more of an overpayment!

just because they have managed to overpay us twice already

I don't trust them one bit, and I would just love to meet someone who knows preciesly how payments are worked out. cos its baffling to say the least!

OP posts:

CountTo10 · 13/02/2007 22:15

Request a formal statement detailing exactly how they have worked out your overpayment in comparison to the details held/payment received at the time. Unfortunatley they can go back 7 years I think. Try and look at the records they based your credits on at the time to see if you can see what the issue was. Take whatever you have or manage to get out of them to CAB and get some advice on how to look at how you can confirm the validity of the overpayment and how you can repay it. The likelihood is as I'm sure you know is that they will just stop your current payments until the deficit is cleared. They are bastards as its all with no warning etc. This was on GMTV this morning as there was a girl on there who'd been forced into bankruptcy because of it!!

moondog · 13/02/2007 22:20

Ignore them completely.

Original poster

preggerspoppet · 13/02/2007 22:52

I saw that counttoten, Its bloody criminal.

I m lucky its only £500, only good thing is that we dont get it anymoe so they cant stop it.

thanks for the advice x

OP posts:

persephonesnape · 13/02/2007 23:46

i was overpaid because they input my P60 figures as £2,800, rather than £20,800. my tax credit was reduced by half, despite protestations form myself that I wasn't aware that i was being overpaid until i phoned them to query cycle of payments. I was so short of money at one point that I sent my son to school with parcel tape holding his shoes together

my MP took up my case and I received two letters from Dawn Primarolo basically calling me a liar. my case is now being investigated by the parliamentary ombudsman, and I'm hopeful of a positive response. this has almost taken two years.

I'm surprised they've actually asked for the money, rather than just stopping it from your CTC.

3LoveHeartsAndNoMore · 14/02/2007 00:04

It's a PITA....we had trouble with this, and they had like stopped our money and we filled that form out for investigation, and now they pay us back the money they owe us from when they stopped the payment and we pay them back, in monthly amounts, money we owe them from where we got overpaid...I mean..wtf...why can't they take a and be and just let me know what c is, lol....stuuuuuuuuuuuuupid........

LucyLemon · 14/02/2007 19:35

You can get a rough calculation of what you should receive in CTCs on:
www.entitledto.com

Sorry...can't do links!

Bekks · 14/02/2007 20:08

Ask for explanation. This happened to me. They said they'd do me an explanation in 15 days and it took six months! They didn't hassle me in the meantime. The people on the phone actually seem quite nice compared to DWP/Housing bens - seem better trained (I used to do housing benefits...) - I keep trying to get them to say something horrible about tax credits but they never do. I did have to pay mine back on that occasion, but have appealed successfully before as they sent me contradictory letters.

Then try Community Legal Service Directory to find an advice agency to help you appeal.

Good luck!

drosophila · 14/02/2007 20:34

look here

1980cat · 14/02/2007 22:57

It depends on what the change in your circumstances was, they will be able to tell you what had Changed and why it caused the overpayment if one person on the phone can't tell you ask to speak to their manager. alhough reading you OP if you are getting child tax credits they should be stopping any overpayment from working tax from that, unless you have had more than one claim (for example one claim as a single person and one as a couple).
If you had more than one claim a lot of overpayments for that sort of ammount are due to someone being paid after they have ended the claim, when payemnts have gone to the bank before the inland revenue have been told abou the change.

Original poster

preggerspoppet · 15/02/2007 13:28

thanks everyone, cat that makes a bit of sense, it was a change like that -single into double claim. I have just had it all in writing but I havn't opened it yet, I need to clear my mind before I tackle it...

OP posts:

Original poster

preggerspoppet · 16/02/2007 13:03

well I opened the letter and it made no sense to me at all so I phoned and managed to speak to someone helpful enough to at least try and explain..

turns out we have 4 seporate overpayments totalling nearly £2000 and datind from april 03.

this is genuinely the first I have ever heard of the other overpayments.

There is one overpayment for last year when we earnt more than we predicted we would so are happy with that one but it only makes up £550. -and that one IS being taken from CTC at a rate of £!! per week and has been for over a year.

But the others?

I am hoping that when I receive more details I will be able to question their right to demand it if it was their error that they didn't even bother to inform me abou, I found out by making enquiries!!

The other three total £1500 ish and need to be paid back as a debt to the IR but I am sure they will be easonable about a payment plan. If I agree that we do owe it.

But now I am really nervous. I have baby 3 due in may so we will probably get WTC again, and I just don't know if I trust them to get it right. Dh's income does fluctuate slightly with overtime but we have always over-estimated on our claim form (other than last year) for the fear of being overpayed.

I just can't get over how badly the system works.

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