My friend backed into an unlit skip

[jampots]

My friend came to collect her children last night from my house and upon leaving backed off my drive and into an unlit skip which is parked on the road directly opposite. I had previously telephoned the Council about the fact that this skip was unlit about 3 weeks ago. It has since been replaced with a smaller one as the other was over full. Neither skip have ever had lights or cones.

I telephoned the skip company to lodge the incident and they said that the lights often get stolen which I reminded them that it has always been unlit.

My friend has just spoken to the skip company and they have basically said she's a crap driver and its not their problem - they wont pay for the damage to her car and its just as well it wasnt one of their cars or she would be in trouble.

where does she stand on this

I don't know as such - but I guess it could be argued that she should have looked behind her and used mirrors effectively when reversing, and that her rear headlights should have illuminated the skip sufficiently to see it.

But I sympathise though - it's rough justice

If it was dark the skip should have had lights on I think that is a legal requirement so they are at fault imo.

Just found this for you:

Skip positioning
Each skip must not be bigger than five metres in length by two metres in width and skips must be positioned in the road unless the Council has granted a permit for the skip to be placed elsewhere.

If permission is granted to place skips on a footway or grass verge, a deposit is needed to cover any damage which may be caused.

Skip owners or suppliers who are issued with a permit to put skips in the road are responsible for ensuring that:

skips are positioned on the road so that their longest sides are parallel to the edge of the road and are as near to the edge of the road as is possible
skips are not positioned less than 15 metres from a junction, except when permission has been granted
skips do not obstruct access to a premises, unless the consent of the occupier has been obtained
skips are positioned on the road so that they do not obstruct drivers and pedestrians in any way
skips do not prevent water drainage on the road or obstruct manholes or stop any functions that need to be carried out by the authorities
if two or more skips are needed in the road, they must be positioned as closely as possible to each other.
Skip markings
each skip must be clearly marked with the skip owner or supplier?s name and telephone number and all markings must also be kept clean and visible at all times
the ends of each skip, i.e. the sides of the skip facing traffic in both directions, must be painted yellow and must be fitted with vertical red and yellow fluorescent reflective markings which comply with British Standard BS AU152:1970 and are marked with that number
markings must be fitted as near as possible to the top outer corners of the ends of the skip, but no higher than one and a half metres above ground level
the markings must not be fitted to lids and should only be fitted to a door when it is not possible to put markings on the end of the skip
when a marking has to be fitted to a door, the door should be kept closed, unless loading or unloading is actually taking place.
Cones and flash lights
skips placed on the road require traffic cones on the approach side to guide traffic safely past them
when it is dark or in bad weather conditions, all skips must be marked by amber flashing lights which are placed against the skip or attached to each corner of it. If there are two or more skips with less than two metres between them, lights can be put on the end corners of the row of skips
if the skip or skips are positioned on the road, lights should be placed between each of the road cones
you will be charged by the council if contractors have to be sent out to make a skip safe or to put lights on an unlit skip.

i was in my local supermarket last week. reversed in to a space and there was a tree that had a metal fence around it at the level of my bumper and back light. i just couldn't see it but should have in the side mirrors - by the look of things loads of other cars have hit it as well. really smacked it and damaged my car badly. am so gutted.

jampots if it had been something else like a bike or large bin that wouldnt have been lit either but she would have been expected to not hit it. IYSWIM.

Tell her to ring the council because even if she has to pay for the damages they will still be charged for having an unlit skip.

I would say that if she had crashed against it while going through the road she may have a point but reversing into one seems like a totally different thing.

BTW, I did the same a few years ago and I think I was lucky skips are so hard, otherwise I might have been charged for damages .

i take the point but if it was a bike or a bin it would have moved and caused less damage. The skip is very low and and comes up to the window level of an average car so isnt actually clearly visible in the dark though the rear window. Obviously she was looking around for movement of a pedestrian and checked teh pavement before backing over it

i have also done it myself but we had the skip at the time at the end of our drive

bump (excuse the pun) for any other views

Hmm yes but it could have been an unlit old person or mother and pram

Unless it was covered with an actual invisibility cloak then I think it is her responsibility

It could easily have been a parked car or motorbike, surely? Or a concrete bollard.

Yes but unlit old people and mothers are able to move if they see a car backing out an unlit skip isn't. Although I think your friend is liable for the damage to her car the skip shouldn't have been unlit and if it's reported to the council will be fined accordingly.

It could have been an unlit blind and deaf person with a pram and a puppy and a box of kittens

Or a larger than average mole with its' legs sealed in concrete.

MP that's true. I reckon she could have been more careful. However the skip company does need reporting to the council as it's breaking regulations.

i have previously reported them to the council who appear to have done nothing

Then tell your friend to sue the council.

Was it not there when she arroved?
I've never seen a skip outside a residential house with a light on it.
Is there no street lighting in your road?

A bummer but how on earth did she not see it if she was using her mirrors???

I can vouch by the invisibility properties of skips

it's an offence to place a skip on the public highway without a licence (and the licence says the skip has to be lit). The nicking lights thing is a common defence - round here, they chain the lights (with a massive padlock!) to the skips. And as they've obviously never tried to put lights on the skip, then they're making it up.

If she has gone to the police to get a case number (for insurance), make sure they know all the details. Here (in London) there was a story in our local rag about builders who have been taken to court (by the council) for putting unlicensed skips in the road.

I would call the council and cause a fuss.

Unlit skips are bloody dangerous.

the skip has a permit

they have breached their permit then if it had no lights

who is your council?

they should have a time limit within which they react to a complaint about a skip

council is Solihull MBC

have you approached the people who are using the skip?

I would write a terse worded letter to the council pointing out that you informed them that it had no lights 3 weeks ago, they didn't act on this information (it says on the solihull council site that they can send out contractors to put lights on the skip and then charge the supplier but they obviously didn't do this) and now an accident has occurred.

That should provoke some sort of response I imagine.

I have no idea about the legalities but on the Solihull website it links to here (when talking about lighting the skip) which mentions that failure to comply with the regulations is a criminal offence!!

I worked for a skip compnay.

It is their responsibility to ensure that all licences and lights required by the local council are in place if the skip is placed on public property. No argument.