How to afford living with two children in London!?

[Londonmamabychance]

I've just this week found out I'm expecting my second child. DD is 19 months. Am of course pleased, but now extremely worried about how to make ends meet and where to live. We currently live in a 1-bed, both of us work (I've got Friday's off, but otherwise will time) and DD goes to nursery.
Now, we can't afford to move to a 2-bed and keep DD in nursery, not during maternity leave, and not emblem after I go back to work, as then the new baby would need full time daycare. At that point DD will be 3 so entitled to the 15 free hours of daycare, but that's not enough to mean we can afford to have two kids in nursery. In my understanding, a nanny for both of them will be cheaper than nursery for them both, but still, it will be v expensive. perhaps we can afford both in nursery or a nanny if we stay in a 1-bed, but, and I know this sounds rally spoiled, given that many purple are struggling much more, but how do you mane with two kids in a 1-bed? Anyone doing it and have advice to offer? Or ideas for cheaper childcare? We have no family around.

I'm starting to wonder if the best option is for me to give up work, but I like working and am worried about the long term implications of leaving my career. Don't want to leave he area we are in, as DD is so happy in her nursery and all my friends are here, plus if we moved further out (are in zone 2, East, now) then DH would have to spend so long travelling to work in central London that we would hardly see him, as. It is he's home around 7.30 - 8 most days.

I feel so trapped in this situation, really want to enjoy being pregnant and looking forward to the new little one on the way, but all these worries are stressing me out so much! Childcare policies in this country are mad! And so are house prices in London. Grrrr

I have friends who had twins in a one bed... but they have now moved to Scandinavia! I also know someone else with three older children in a one bed and they manage but it does seem a lot of work and they need to spend a lot of time away from the flat or they would be climbing the walls.

I actually think you will be fine in a 1 bed until the baby is 18 months or so but then it will start to get more difficult as they need more space. I think you do need to to think about how you can get a slightly bigger place and still make it work, this might coincide with working out where you would like the oldest to go to school etc. A move to a cheaper part of zone 2 or 3 wouldn't necessarily mean more travel.

Regards, childcare, unfortunately you are just going to have to struggle through for a few years (another reason to stay put too). I think it's very sensible to think about staying in your job (I have had 5 years off and don't really recommend it!). Compressing days for you and/or your partner sounds like a really good idea.

I have two under 5 in London and I have to say I love it and don't think I would move out as there is so much interesting free stuff to do, people to see and you can always escape to a park or further afield.

There's interesting free stuff in other parts of the country too, you know...

Our town is full of ex London dwellers. There are four families on my street alone who moved out of London when they had kids, for better quality of life, schools and to live in a house not a flat. We are 5 minutes walk from a mainline station and it takes 40 minutes to get to kings cross.

I don't understand people who say they can't move out of London because their job is there. DH works near London Bridge, and has many colleagues who live in London who take 90 minutes to get to work on tubes, buses etc, he can be at his desk just over an hour from leaving home (he has a folding bike and cycles from the station). You just need to spend five minutes looking at train timetables to figure it out. Even accounting for season ticket costs it still works out way cheaper to live further out. And life does not stop outside the m25.

If I were you I wouldn't think twice and would move to a suburb at the outskirts of London. I would try not to get too sentimental about friends. First because you can still meet with those friends who are close to you. Second because you'll also make loads of new friends in the new area which as a bonus will be much more child friendly too. I would go mad in a 1 bedroom flat with 2 young kids, it's so much nicer to have a garden and some space and you'd get all that in a lot of London areas that are further afield for the same price of a 1 bedroom in central London. Don't be scared of the move it's totally doable. We did it twice and moved from completely central London (when DS was born) to a zone 3 suburb and later to zone 5 in order to buy a house and it's been really good. Central london and up to zone 2 I would say is completely unaffordable to most people unless you can sell a really expensive house whose price has boosted or have a very well paid job. Otherwise everyone else moves to suburbs IME.

I also agree with the others to take shorter maternity leave and maybe put the money you would have put to those extra months to being slightly more part time or at least flexible hours? You could also try not taking a holiday first year back to work and negotiate with your boss taking 1 day annual leave every couple of weeks? A friend of mine did that on a planned / regular way and it felt like she was part time while being paid full time. The sacrifice with this is you don't get to go on holiday that first year but that's not such a major sacrifice in my book if it means being around your kids more.

Oh I just wanted to add about friends: Lots of them may well move out of London. Lots of people do once they have children. Major reasons are: more house for your money, easier to get into the better schools, and the dream of wanting a "rural" childhood.

We have to live in the SE, but DH has always commuted into London, rather than our family try to afford to live there. From my town it can be as quick to work as lots of people on tube lines.

I agree with mummytime. Generally in London people move often--you'll find this is even more true as your children grow and you'll also find that you will be spending more time with other families locally and only occasional times with friends from your pre-children time, particularly those without children. This may sound grim but it's really not as you can meet some lovely new friends through your children

Also you don't necessarily need to move outside London as many posters seem to be suggesting: there are many London suburbs that are in further zones and are much more affordable and lovely

I agree with posters about what is your plan for the future. Can you afford a 2 or 3 bed if only one of you work? How about schools? Are you able to get into a good school from where you live? You will need to be in the right house when you apply.

Maybe coming from overseas, you don't know there are other parts of the country with interesting jobs and free places.

It sounds like you don't have high paying enough jobs to actually afford to live in London for the lifestyle you aspire. It's actually cheaper and a shorter commute often outside of London!

Btw my dream would be to live in scandinavia as we have 2 under 3. I have daydreams about the cheap childcare and flexible working - in fact we'd probably have a 3rd if we lived there!

Just remember when factoring in the 15/ 30 hours free childcare that this is term time only (39/52 weeks) and starts the term after you child turns 3. I think people sometimes forget that they will need to pay full childcare for 13 weeks a year and it comes as a bit of a shock.

Good point monty. Our nursery spreads the hours over the year so the 15 hours becomes 11 hours a week.

I think you can get away with a one bed when they're little - bedroom being kids room and you two being on sofa bed in the lounge.

Or if the rooms big enough, all four in one bedroom.

That should work up to school age for your eldest, by which point littlest will be entitled to 30 free hours, hopefully freeing up funds for a two or three bed.

But yes, I would give serious consideration to careers outside of London. It will no doubt mean a pay cut but this is often very much offset by the lower cost of living.

Re friends - I live in York and still see my London friends every month (advance train fares mean a single each way can be as little as £12) so I wouldn't worry about moving out of London.

Have you looked into the likely schools situation? That will come around sooner than you might think!

Don't give up work if you're unsure saH is for you, and/or are concerned about your long term earning power/pension etc. You both became parents and both need to make work compromises, including DH (eg getting into work late or leaving early to do one end of the day).

We were in a similar situation (although a two bed) and moved out of London. Childcare is better and cheaper where we are now but two people commuting is awful, and I definitely wouldn't have been able to keep my London job if DH didn't do his share of the childcare during the week.

But it isn't necessary to find a new job (which OP has said isn't easy / possible), just to move to, say, London zone 5/6 rather than zones 1/2 which are just unaffordable. Really OP there are lovely areas in the outer zones, I promise.

thanks for all your advice! so great. I just have a major concern though; if me move away, what about DD's nursery? If we move while I'm still in the same job and working she will need day-care, but how would we get a new nursery place immediately in the new place? And would it not then be in a less desirable place, given that there are usually long waiting lists for the good nurseries? Or do you think that we could find a child-minder easily? I looked at child-minders for DD, but only found four available and did not click with any of them, so picked the nursery which I am very happy with. If we moved when I am on maternity leave, I am worried about being at home with both a little tiny one and DD, if she did not have day-care, who is extremely active and sociable, like off the scale physically active for her age...

IME is is v v v hard to find childcare in London zone 2 - for us it was much easier further out.

Londonmama if you decide to buy or even rent somewhere else that will take some time (some months at least) so that will be your opportunity / time window to research childcare options. I have found the the more central you live, the harder it is to find good childcare

Definitely consider moving further out.

I'm on the Surrey/Hampshire border...I love three mins walk from a mainline station that gets me into Waterloo in 39 minutes and my rent is only £950 for a two bedroom house with a small garden and garage.

Yes, there is the season ticket to think about which works out at £300-350 per month but still much cheaper than living in London, plus more open spaces and access to the countryside which is great when you have kids.

hmmm....moving out sounds ore and more appealing. But, wouldn't you need to have a car if you lived further out? To do grocery shopping and stuff? We don't have a car now and living in zone 2 next to loads of shops and transport links, children activities and parks, never need one. Wouldn't the cost of a car + season ticket more or less offset the cheaper rent? Or can you manage further out without a car?

I think the difference in price even considering season ticket / car is huge. You will not necessarily need car. We live in zone 5, 4 min walk from mainland station, 5 min bus ride from tube. Depends where you move. Also If you do get a car, your tube / train travel costs go down to compensate somehow. Travel by train / tube is also not expensive. Lots of outer London suburbs have excellent transport links. That will be one of your considerations when you move.

Sorry meant public transport is also expensive

Please let me know if I can help further. Either through here of PM. We moved from our beloved tiny flat in zone 1, to zone 3 and eventually zone 5 so I know can what it's like! We now are not moving any further

We have a large supermarket 2 min walk from home. Also lots of people use online shopping.

As PPs say as well as "out" there are alsp other zones of London. Zone 2 is premium prices!

Transport links, retail and shops really vary. Where I am rail travel to London is relatively cheap (£1800 year) but v slow, and we do need a car. Really miss London public transport!

Stilllovingmysleep and everyone else, thanks! When you moved out, did you find it hard? I'm just looking at flat in various further out places and it all looks nice and so much cheaper, but I'm wondering how much I'll miss my friends here and all the activities I got used to...dos you find it easy to make new friends? And did you find lots of activities? One of the things I love about where I am now is children's centre literally down the road, parks, museums, and lots of stuff to do...I had a brilliant may leave here, wondering if it'll be the same somewhere else? Sorry if that sounds silly