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Just had to say no (again) to lending my dad money

49 replies

Labracadabra · 29/01/2016 16:43

I am 37 and married with 2 DC (5 and 2). My parents (but mostly my DF) are hopeless with money and live on credit. They have no assets or savings and live in rented property. They did own a house but about 15 years ago my DM discovered that DF had remortgaged the house (in joint names but he forged her signature) so when it was sold they were left with nothing.
DF was made redundant about 15 years ago and started his own business, ran up debts of £100k (plus other money he'd borrowed from family) and then went bankrupt about 8 years ago. When his mum died 3 years ago he inherited about £30k. After paying off debts he was left with about 15K. It has all gone now (a couple of holidays and lots of "stuff" bought such as electronic gadgets and non-essential household items).
My mum is now seriously ill having suffered two stokes (unexpectedly, she is only 62 and was in fine health) so is currently in hospital and is very dependent,. She is due to be discharged from hospital in about a month, their current rented house is unsuitable as it is a small cottage with no downstairs loo and a narrow, winding staircase. Their income consists of a tiny company pension (DF), housing benefit, pension credits and DLA/carer's allowance. They need to move house and because DF likely has a dreadful credit rating and a low income they may be refused unless they pay 6 months rent upfront. My dad asked if I would lend them that money and I said no.
I feel terrible but it's no exaggeration to say that DF has never repaid any money he has borrowed, ever. My uncle (DF's brother) lent them 6 months rent upfront a few years ago for another property and only ever got 1 monthly payment back (in addition to other money he lent which he never received). I have lent money back when I was at uni (my student loan!) and never got it back. DF has no problem buying "stuff" on credit and as soon as he has cash in his pocket he spends it. He got £2500 for some work he did a few months ago and bought a boat. No kidding.
They used some of their savings (inheritance) to pay 6 months upfront on the house they're in now, but instead of putting the monthly rent back into savings for the next 6 months they spent it and now have no savings! Over the past few years he has bought things on a whim like old classic cars, a tandem and other things he fancies, they sit around never used and then he sells them at a loss a few months/years later.
I feel so cross about the childish attitude to money (especially other people's) and I know I've done the right thing (head over heart) but they do need to move and I'm worried he might get a payday loan or something. I know he has applied for finance in my brother's name before (possibly with his permission, I'm not sure) and has used my Gran (his MIL)'s debit card to buy stuff and pay for car repairs (she has dementia).
I have suggested he sells the boat and one car (they have two and my mum won't be driving again) and raises the money that way. He's not keen - thinks mum deserves to have something nice like a boat with all she's been through (at the moment, she can't walk, speak or swallow) and he rather likes his Mercedes! I drive a battered ancient car with 150K miles on the clock, an oil leak and peeling paint. But when asking for the money he said "we know you can afford it". I work full time for a good salary but we have a childcare bill of £1300/month and are madly overpaying our mortgage to get security for our children's future. Our clothes and books come from Oxfam or Ebay and we certainly don't go on fancy holidays - DH hasn't been on a plane for 7 years and the children never have!
I was thinking of saying I'd lend him the money on the condition he lets me see his credit report and we both meet with an IFA to go through his finances and get him on a budget where he can clear his debts (overdraft, catalogue, credit card I think but I'm not sure exactly what) and where his outgoings match his income. Is that a stupid idea? I should run a mile but I live in hope he can sort this out and I would love to be able to help.
Massive post, sorry, but I think you need all the details (and I've still probably missed some out!)

OP posts:
Labracadabra · 29/01/2016 18:23

I agree expat, he's a thief and a fraudster, what a combo! I don't think I like him much but with my mum's illness I can't avoid interacting with him

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Labracadabra · 29/01/2016 18:25

X-posts Suzanne!

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expatinscotland · 29/01/2016 18:25

'When I say he's got a nice Mercedes, it's about 10 years old (which to me is practically new wink) and probably worth £4-5k so not really a luxury car but would definitely cover most, if not all, of the money he needs for the house'

It's a moot point, Lab, as long as he cannot tap you for money. He has no intention of paying you back. He runs up debts with no intention of paying them back. That's theft. And he'll turn to fraud to steal more money. You have to stop engaging with him in any discussion when it comes to money because he's a thief, and like most con artists, manipulative.

cozietoesie · 29/01/2016 18:27

As I said, keep a close eye on your credit history. (You can do it online.) It's good practice in any case.

expatinscotland · 29/01/2016 18:28

You cannot avoid interacting with him, but you can refuse to engage in any discussion with him about money. 'I'm not speaking to you about money anymore. There will be no money from me. You need to make other arrangements.' If he tries to threaten you with no contact because of that, you call him out on it. 'That's bullying. I don't respond to bullying. I'll continue to help Mum via the council.' And you mean it. Because he is conning you.

cozietoesie · 29/01/2016 18:30

The notion that anyone could hijack a youngster's student loan flabbergasted me. He's not a good person.

expatinscotland · 29/01/2016 18:32

Definitely keep an eye on your credit history. One of my first cousins, his own dad used identity fraud to run up credit in my cousin's name, then skipped out on it. The dad wound up in prison (like your dad, he had a long history of running up debts and going bankrupt/not paying). But before he did, he actually tried to manipulate my cousin into taking the rap for it! Can you believe? That's how entitled people like this are, they'd throw their own child under a bus to get their own way.

suzannecaravaggio · 29/01/2016 18:40

he's a thief and a fraudster, what a combo!

sounds slightly sociopathic...as if he has no conscience?
very upsetting but just protect yourself, don't be drawn into his web

ObsidianBlackbirdMcNight · 29/01/2016 18:56

A £4-5k car is a very valuable asset. It would easily get them rent and deposit for a nice flat. If You lend him money, you will be basically paying for him to keep his valuable car and pointless boat. Is that what you want to be doing?

Labracadabra · 29/01/2016 19:13

Yes I've often thought he seems to have no conscience (or rather wonky moral compass) as some of the things he's done are so wrong. When DH and I got married we paid for our own wedding, but, unbeknownst to me, DM got a loan for about £3500 as she wanted to contribute. She ended up giving DF the money to pay off a debt and confessed to me how upset she was that she hadn't been able to give me any money towards the wedding ( I wouldn't have accepted it and would never have let her get a loan for it) but she still had to make the repayments for years afterwards.

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cozietoesie · 29/01/2016 19:48

Actually, in your general situation, I think I'd do an online credit check directly rather than waiting any. It will almost certainly be fine but it's good practice to look.

expatinscotland · 29/01/2016 19:50

Christ on a bike! He's happy to take even off his nearest and dearest. Don't give him FA and don't let him manipulate him into that.

cozietoesie · 29/01/2016 19:54

expat

He took a youngster's student loan! If you mentioned that possibility to any of those in our family, they'd laugh with incredulity.

Lordamighty · 29/01/2016 20:11

If you lend him this money you will never see it again and you already know this. He will bleed you dry & then start casting round for someone else to fleece.

The only answer is no. If my DH wanted to give money to a feckless relative like your DF I would be furious.

Labracadabra · 29/01/2016 20:34

I'll do a credit check now. Who's best? Experian? Does it damage my credit rating to check or is that a myth?

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FinallyHere · 29/01/2016 20:49

Experian fine.

The only damage a credit check can do, is if you have loads and loads of them recorded against your file, which suggests that you have been applying, and being turned down for, lots of loans. A one off, even regular check spaced out, which not cause any issue.

cozietoesie · 29/01/2016 20:54

I don't think they affect your credit rating at all. I'll stand to be corrected on that but I understand that they count as an 'administrative' search which doesn't figure.

I used to be with Experian - they do a free one month trial - but left them when they wanted to charge me £££ for services I didn't want. I moved to noddle who are permanently free for the basic service. All the big credit companies 'talk' to each other though. ( 3 main ones if I recall. )

Other posters may have views on the best so keep an eye on this thread. (And have your cc handy if you sign up with one - even if you're not charged, they generally use it for verification purposes.)

cozietoesie · 29/01/2016 20:56

Sorry - l meant checks by you as a registered user.

Labracadabra · 29/01/2016 21:03

Done a noddle check and all is fine - phew! I've registered for Noddle alerts so I'll know if anyone is trying anything! Ridiculous really. Why can't I just have normal (ok, at least financially independent) parents!

OP posts:
JizzyStradlin · 29/01/2016 21:15

All you can do is stay well out of it. This is not a problem you could solve even if you wanted to.

expatinscotland · 29/01/2016 21:17

And just repeat 'no' to him. He might try to bully and manipulate you. Don't let him or he will just continue to do it. Get your husband to help saying no to him, too, if need be.

cozietoesie · 29/01/2016 21:25

Well done for checking. Smile More people should do that thing.

LovelyBath · 06/02/2016 17:11

I think you are doing the right thing not lending any money. If you didn't get it back that would cause problems between you.

Have you asked them to look at sheltered housing? My dad has this, in Scotland and he was saying there are plenty on the Isle of Arran! If they'd like a change of scene...

It might be a good idea, with your mum's serious health problems, as they have a warden to keep an eye on things but still get their independence. The credit rating etc should not matter, and rents are quite low so should help with the financial side.

HTH and something gets sorted out soon x

GiraffesAndButterflies · 06/02/2016 17:35

A) Don't lend him money
B) Don't feel you need to justify not lending him money (even if he were a saint, it is your money and you don't need a reason not to lend it)
C) Don't kid yourself he will change- he has proved his untrustworthiness thoroughly and completely.

Flowers I can understand why you are tempted but emotionally and financially it sounds like a really bad idea.

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