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Original poster

can an absent parent be given parental responsibility without the resident parents permission?

38 replies

7swansaswimmingup · 19/12/2006 20:04

anyone know, apparently my ex has been given PR and i know nothing about it

hes not on birth certificate by the way

OP posts:
smittenkitten · 19/12/2006 20:19

no, the mother has to give permission for PR to be granted

wickedwinterwitch · 19/12/2006 20:20

Highly unlikely I'd have said. Where did you get this information from?

FrayedKnotRoastingOnAnOpenFire · 19/12/2006 20:20

Surely there is no way he could prove to the court that he is the father unless you confirm that he is?!

yulelog · 19/12/2006 20:34

i i can remeber form my training anyone can apply for parental right and reponsibilities for a child as long as they can prove that they are reponsible for the welfare of the child. granparents step parents etc can apply. but with that they can be removed from biological parents as well

mummydear · 19/12/2006 20:34

Were you married at the time of the birth of your child ?

If so then ( I beleive ) he is PR, otherwise very strange .

mummydear · 19/12/2006 20:40

Does this link throw any light on it ?

here

yulelog · 19/12/2006 20:43

mummyear you are right if you and your partner are married when babe is born then they have parental rights, if they are not married then marry after they have to apply as for unmarried parents.

Original poster
7swansaswimmingup · 19/12/2006 21:15

sorry for late reply, posted message,ds woke up coughing and screaming and still settling him now!

right, we werent married,thank god,split whilst pregnant.

he has supervised access, got court thursday AGAIN,he does this every xmas.

his solcitior letter stated that he has PR!?

ive got not paperwork and signed nothing so seems bit odd to me.

thanks for replies, il see what gets said thursday about it

OP posts:
flutturkey · 19/12/2006 21:17

Have you stated he is the Dad at any point (child maintanence maybe)?

chipkid · 19/12/2006 21:22

Unless you have agreed to his having pr and that agreement was lodged with the High Court-the only way he could have been granted PR is through the Court.
You talk of Court hearings-was there ever one that he attended without you?
Check back thorugh any Court orders made-if not granted there-he hasn't got it

Original poster
7swansaswimmingup · 19/12/2006 21:27

oh yea, he knows hes the father alright flutterkey!

i think hes gone a bit mad too be honest, this letter also states that it was agreed that ds's surname would be doublebarrelled by a hyphen with my name! um no, we agreed to keep the ex happy that he could have his surname as an extra middle name as i dont want ds growing up with different name to me and his brother and its defintiely a status issue with the ex.

mummydear,brilliant link! im still reading through it but this quote made me laugh :

"It is odd that he has not bothered with his badge of ownership and entitlement before (PR)"

badge of ownership! yea that sounds about right

OP posts:
Original poster
7swansaswimmingup · 19/12/2006 21:29

hi chipkid, i checked through a huge pile of paperwork for anything today and all i could find was an order for march 2005 saying for it to be discussed about PR. and nothing was ever mentioned again. ive not seen a document or signed one

unless my solicitor hasnt passed it on to me?

OP posts:
chipkid · 19/12/2006 21:37

you should be ok then. His solicitor may be confused-and believe that it was ordered-or was thinking about some other case !!!!!

Ask your solicitor-he/she should be able to tell you pretty easily.

Do you object to his having PR?

Original poster
7swansaswimmingup · 19/12/2006 21:42

i wouldnt object to it chipkid unless it allowed him to take ds out of the country, i have my reasons to believe he may not return him if he took him away. also, i have a will written that anything happened to me that ds (aged 2) and his brother would reside with my parents, dont know if PR would affect that or not

OP posts:
turquoise · 19/12/2006 21:46

Have you signed forms for anything else? My ex tricked me into signing PR by slipping it into a bunch of forms for health insurance - I'd never have known if they hadn't sent it back to me because his solicitors had given him an out of date form

Original poster
7swansaswimmingup · 19/12/2006 21:50

blimey turquoise,thats sneeky isnt it!

OP posts:
chipkid · 19/12/2006 22:00

PR in itself would not alter your ex's claim to care for your child in the event of your death 7swansaswimmingup. As the natural father-there will be a presumption in his favour-all things being equal. whether he had pr or not is irrelevant.

PR is often a contentious issue-9 times out of 10 they get it-if they push for it so be prepared.

Original poster
7swansaswimmingup · 19/12/2006 22:21

ok thanks chipkid, hopefully im not gona pop my clogs yet

im hoping hes going to change his mind about mediation as i can see him going to court for such trivial things which hes done up to know. drives me mad and causes such bad feeling. im sure ds will grow up at this rate, like my eldest, thinking "that man upsets my mum"

thanks for all help

OP posts:
hotmulledwinemama · 19/12/2006 22:36

I think this is weird if he isn't on the birth certificate.

Prior to 2003ish, even if the the father's name was on the birth certificate but you were unmarried then the father didn't necessarily get PR. There was some legislation could have been the Childrens Act - or something like it that changed this.

After, this legislation if the father's name was put on the birth certificate even if the parents weren't married then the father automatically got PR.

I agree very strange.

Original poster
7swansaswimmingup · 20/12/2006 10:22

oh ive just found out that apparently hes had PR since december 2nd 2005!first ive heard, oh well at least he hasnt used it to escape the country with ds, in actual fact i really dont see why he bothered as with all ds medical conditions you'd think he would have used it to gain more understanding of medical records etc.

hes probably got it framed on the wall with a pic of ds underneath it saying "look hes mine"

OP posts:
12yeargap · 20/12/2006 10:29

My ex-P took me to court to try and get PR, and was refused, it went through several hearings.

I'm afraid some men use this to control their partner. My ex even tried (unsuccesfully, thank God!) to block my application for a passport for DS. Wanker.

I'm just so glad the judge saw through him.

His name was on the birth certificate, BTW.

FestiveFrex · 20/12/2006 10:30

Point is PR doesn't actually confer very much on the absent parent. It gives them the right to be consulted on major issues, but, at the end of the day, if there is a dispute between the pair of you over something important (such as which school child should attend) as the primary carer, you have the final say.

I'm surprised that PR was granted without your knowledge. I'd speak to my solicitor if I were you to find out why you weren't informed. If that solicitor was acting for you at the time (and the court was aware of this), he/she should have been notified and passed this information on to you.

Original poster
7swansaswimmingup · 20/12/2006 10:39

12year gap, thats good he didnt get it! i thought that they automatically got it if on birth certificate or is that the 2003 rule.

festive, solicitor said on phone this morning that it was granted when i didnt have legal aid in place

at court tomorrow ive asked her to get a residence order for me as ex has promised me he will drag me through court for no reason till ds is 18, thats another 16 blinkin years!at least i have security then for ds as i think ultimately, just to spite me he would continue court cases till he got ds himself. sad fecker.

really must have a shower now and get my notes ready for tomorrow

OP posts:
FestiveFrex · 20/12/2006 10:41

He probably wouldn't be able to keep dragging you back to court for no good reason. The courts don't like it when litigants abuse the court process. He will have to have a jolly good reason for each case or your solicitor could apply to have it dismissed for abuse of the court process. He may even be banned from bringing any further cases if he is stupid enough.

FestiveFrex · 20/12/2006 10:52

Also, if you didn't have legal aid in place when the order was granted, you should have been sent a copy of the order directly. If you're bothered, you could contact the court to find out why you weren't notified.