DH huge mortgage shortfall - bank want to know about MY earnings to pay it back?

[quickMoneyQuestion]

Long story short - before he even met me, DH bought a house with someone else (not an ex!). He hasn't lived there for years and the other person has been paying the mortgage as they have been living there.

About 2 years ago that person starting having problems, we tried to help pay the mortgage but we can't really afford it now and nor can they.

So - they are selling. There is negative equity of about £50k and it looks like DH and the other party will have to go bankrupt as it is an impossible amount to pay off.

Before we get to that stage however, the sale is going through and the bank want to know how DH is intending to pay off the arrears. To the extent that they have asked him about MY income and salary. Well, I don't want to give this information, and nor do I want a penny of my income going to pay off these arrears - we have discussed it and would rather him go bankrupt.

My question is - am I legally liable for any of this? Do they have a legal right to ask about MY money and to expect me to pay some of it towards the arrears? None of this mess is to do with me at all and I already deeply resent the situation DH has put me in without having to pay any of MY money towards the mess!

I work for a bank and used to work in this area. If you are not the owner of the property then you aren't liable provided you can prove that all Joint and Sole (your name) Assets belong just to you. If you are working then this is relatively easy to prove, but your accounts will still need to be frozen while the investigation takes place. If you are a STAHM (and your husband was the main earner) then all assets except those obtained via specific benefits are classed as his and are considered fair game. You might want to contact citizens advice bureau and ask to speak to their insolvency experts if you haven't already done so.

You will need as many bank statements as possible to prove that money you brought into the marriage is yours. It all has to be evidenced. PM me if you need specific information.

fanny It is ridiculous to suggest anyone can predict with any certainty what will happen to a house price at any time, unless you have powers the rest of us don't in which case, can you tell me what my house will be worth on 12th July 2017 if I give you it's location?

This is a pointless argument anyway as, the banks have massively tightened their lending criteria to avoid a repeat of past problems and the
OP us still in this situation.

I'm so sorry I didn't caveat my previous comments with all eventualities- I'll try harder next time.

For all we know it might have been bought after the crash (unlikely admittedly) or well before, whenever it was bought, the situation is as it is and it is pointless blaming the banks.

Goalpost moving there bearbehind, so I'm going to have to insist you stick to the original proposition. I feel quite confident nobody reading will be fooled by your attempt to present this as a discussion about whether a bank should be able to tell us what a house will be worth on any given date.

Instead, do tell us why the bank couldn't possibly be expected to realise that this particular sale was going to result in NE, and why they'd have needed a crystal ball to realise a crash was coming generally. You know, the things you actually said that people have taken issue with.

OP I went bankrupt a few years ago and DH was never affected financially. We always kept separate finances like you. The situation would be different if you had some joint assets and that's where some people may get confused. I had to provide his income details for the bankruptcy process but only so that they could account for his paying half of the household expenses, to show that I wasn't taking them all on myself. I never provided his details for any creditors prior to bankruptcy (although my debts were unsecured not a mortgage). There are definitely some creditors who will try to use inaccurate information to intimidate people into settling their debts, so it's really important to be clear on your legal liabilities.

DH's credit report is and has always been excellent. We check both of ours regularly and we aren't linked on any of them, and he has been able to get an excellent mortgage rate which was taken out in his name only.

The consequences of BR can be fairly minimal if you prepare well. I've never lost access to my main bank account, I've been able to open up additional accounts, and was able to get a credit card 18 months after going BR. However I don't have a chequebook or overdraft now, but that's not been a problem for me.

The MSE bankruptcy board is the most accurate source of advice I've found - there are verified advisors from debt charities like Stepchange and National Debtline so it's not just random people on the internet giving views on what they think should happen . I've found CAB very understaffed so I'd recommend the more specialist advice charities over them - they are usually telephone only but much quicker to deal with. You can start getting in touch with Stepchange now - I think I contacted them several times over the years before I finally went bankrupt.

fanny you might be champion of the world but unfortunately you can't 'insist' on me doing anything.

It was pretty clear, at least to me and only you seem to give a shit anyway, that I was referring to the bank being unable to predict the value of the purchased house dropping by the point, unknown to them, that the purchaser came to sell.

You are derailing this thread with your pointless arguments- give it up.

If you thought my arguments were pointless bearbehind, you wouldn't be replying. I note with interest that you still haven't provided any proof for your beyond ludicrous assertion that the banks would've needed a crystal ball to predict a housing market crash, or your view that the bank couldn't possibly have realised that this particular house was going to drop in value. There's a reason for that. Because both are bollocks. You're clearly behind when it comes to this sort of thing.

Please stop derailing this thread.

I stand by my assertion that the bank needed a crystal ball to know if this or any other property would end up in NE.

NE is only an issue when you come to sell. Even if you assume a crash had to happen, then you cannot predict that the eventual selling price would be below the purchase price due to timing.

I'm really not sure why you gave such a bee in your bonnet about this but it's boring me and I'm sure it is everyone else too.

Bear I think it's clear that Fanny and others are saying they have no sympathy with banks for their irresponsible lending practises which helped cause the housing crash, and don't care that they're losing money now by bankrupts not paying them back their overinflated mortgages.

Saying they couldn't Foresee it is ridiculous- they helped cause it. If you're lending someone eg 110% of the property value you start them off NE and hope they'll stay and pay long enough to make the mortgage worthwhile and profitable. (Although back in the day the lenders didn't really hope for either- the short term bonus' gained for making the mortgage sale in the first place were good enough for everyone involved)
Bank takes a sizeable risk they'll do neither, mitigated by higher interest rates to spread their risk across many high risk mortgages. Why would you have sympathy for the bank?

We have no idea why OPs H is in NE. it might not have been a sub prime mortgage. It doesn't actually matter. I don't see why anyone would have "sympathy" for a faceless corporation in this instance. In fact I'd think anyone who did a bit daft.

walking I agree and specifically stated I wasn't talking about instances where banks had allowed borrowers to over stretch themselves, only where the purchase price dropped.

I accept that if you've over stretched yourself in the first place then a drop in value makes it a whole heap worse but my original comment was in response to a post stating the bank should have researched this property and known it's value would drop which I still think is absurd.

I only commented on the sympathy for for banks by virtue of the fact it was part of the same sentence mentioning the research must edit quotes better in future

But you have no idea whether, in this instance, the bank allowed the borrowers to overstretch themselves at all, and that's why you can't claim it was impossible for the bank to realise what was going to happen. And clearly most people on this thread disagree that the housing market crash was some unforeseeable, crystal ball requiring thing. I mean, that is a pretty ridiculous statement to make. As walking points out, they helped cause the thing.

Oops, got cut off there.

As for the derailing, don't take the piss. If it was relevant for you to say banks would've needed a crystal ball to predict the crash and to claim it was impossible for them to predict the outcome of an individual sale, it's relevant for someone to tell you why you're talking shit. Several someones, since your crystal ball comment was condemned by multiple posters. If you were that concerned not to discuss those subjects, not only would you not have done so in the first place but you wouldn't be dragging it out now.

i do see what you are saying but I was only ever commenting on the inability of anyone to predict a house price and I still stand by that.

I completely accept that if the DH borrowed more than the house was worth in the first place then this perpetuated the problem- it would be very interesting to know if the DH did borrow 100% or more......

Posted before your continued rant- bored of it now though.

With a bit of luck, your boredom will stop you from continuing to shit stir whilst whining about other people derailing bearbehind.

And by all means stand by your crystal ball claim, but there's a reason why you're the only one who's said that and several posters have pointed out to you exactly why it's bullshit. You just look more ridiculous every time you say it.

In what way will this LOOK AT ME discussion help the OP?

There's a risk that useful posts like this one will get lost in this garbage.

Even if I were shit stirring, which is certainly not my intention, I'm not alone.

You will no doubt insist on having the last word on this though.

Feel free.

I know what I said and what I meant.

I look forward to the OP updating on how the situation arose, if she can be bothered to wade through all this bickering.

I have zero sympathy for banks and quite frankly the bank should have done their research before lending so much on a property that was at risk of losing so much in value.

I do however have rather a lot of sympathy for me and would really rather not start having to pay hefty bank charges and the like to make up for the shortfall.

You're not alone in shit stirring bearbehind, but you are alone in berating other people for derailing because they've made the same number of posts as you in dealing with a subject. We're both bickering but only one of us is a hypocrite.

Anyway, the main point OP should hopefully take from this discussion is that the majority of people realise the banks not only wouldn't need a crystal ball to predict the housing crash but actually were instrumental in causing it. And that people who claim otherwise tend to find it very problematic to actually back that up. So with that in mind, with luck she'll be able to put the posts moralising at her about paying back debt in their proper context.

Ironically fanny if you bother to check I actually condoned those moralising about paying the debt back which somewhat screws up your beef with me.

Bollocks- condemned not condoned!

Haven't read the whole thread but I would say DH's debts are his and not yours. My student loan is my debt even though Dh earns well over the threshold to pay it back.

Divorce him

gruntled The fees they charge on the mortgages they issue far outweigh the cost of what is written off. I audit banks for a living. I see what they are making and the fees they charge for regular banking pay for the infrastructure required by regulators.

The spread on mortgages is about 3-4%. That is a pretty huge margin.

The only thing that would screw up my beef with you bearbehind is you admitting you were talking shit when you claimed the bank would need a crystal ball to predict the crash. Generously, I'm prepared to forget about your complaints of derailing whilst doing the exact same yourself if you can manage to refrain from that for another post.