Working for a direct sales company

[Millycw]

Hi Ladies! What are your opinions on working for a direct sales company that affords flexible working hours and working from home? Does anyone already work for one? Has anyone considered doing it?

I didn't say ASOS etc were MLM's but you were implying that without selling on the High Street, a firm can't be genuine. I was highlighting a number of online only companies or products.

Different companies sell in different ways. Just because they don't sell they way you think they should, doesn't automatically make them dodgy.

The mighty Amazon don't make any checks on the products people upload to their site, yet if Y sold on there you'd (apparently) be happier. Weird.

Great info Brysonette. As I mentioned upthread, avoid any organisation that "rewards" you for personal purchase of its products. "PRS" joins PV (Amway) and CC (Forever Living). You have to spend $125 every month in Y.

Chammy: "The 125 prs profit will depend on the customers commission level. If I sold 125 prs which as I've said is roughly 5 mascaras then the commission I would receive is £23, if I was at 30% I would have £27.60"
But the vast majority of distribtions (and, I would suggest, you too Chammy) don't sell at RRP. You buy it yourself and ignore the fact that you are in fact paying Y £100 net per month for their products. That's why no-one ever publishes a pofitandloss account. Please be careful, you can get hurt by these scams.

ChammyIRL - thanks for your responses. I hope the replies are not hostile but you're not the first to fall for the MLM cult hook and, sadly, wont be the last. I noted:
"At the end of the day, I fell in love with the products so wanted them and selling was a good way of getting my own cheap or free as it happens."

I was reminded of the excellent and amusing Baffler article on Amway:
thebaffler.com/salvos/dreams-incorporated

"Other multilevels offer one or two miracle products, such as nutritional supplements like bluegreen algae or “minerals in colloidal suspension,” etc., about which wild claims can be made with impunity. Such products defy conventional sales methods, usually because they require some sort of conversion experience on the part of the customer or elaborate person-to-person instruction. "

Conversion experience is a good phrase. You become a "believer" - check the culty message on the Y website linked upthread.

trinity

The phrase lastuser used was transparent marketplace. It seems you have interpreted that to mean 'high street' when in fact a transparent marketplace can take many forms, one of which is the internet.

Transparency gives a consistency and clarity of message usually within the confines of the law, using messages which have been carefully risk-managed to ensure maximum benefit whilst considering factors such as reputational damage or H&S factors. Boots no.7 protect and perfect serum is a good example: buy this anti wrinkle cream because it's been proven by some scientists to work.

MLMs thrive where there is no transparency so that they can disavow themselves of any bots making claims which are unlawful or unsupportable (buy this aloe gel as it helps with cancer is one I've seen), all the while tacitly encouraging bots to make precisely such claims to maximise sales - sales being recruitment of other bots as opposed to end-users.

You and I have agreed on other threads that not all bots operate in the same way. Whilst younique encourage active recruitment, you seem to resist the pressure or temptation to recruit. Nonetheless you're still part of and indeed facilitating an industry that is ethically bankrupt for the sake of your cheap mascara. Have you ever considered your involvement with Younique from that perspective?

Yes, to me the fact they rely on word of mouth advertising is because they can then make unsubstantiated /wildly exaggerated claims, without the scrutiny of the ASA etc

Thanks for the info ChammyIRL – it’s interesting to know how other MLMs work and also why people go for their products/system.
Personally I could never support an MLM and agree with lazycoo & throwingpebbles in terms of the tactics they employ, plus all the other culty nonsense.

xenu1: I do sell at RRP, I don't personally buy in any stock accept for my own personal use. EVERY customer of mine either buys direct from my site or pays me before I place my monthly order. I've only ever sold one mascara that I had in stock because the Royal Mail misplaced one I sent to a customer, I ordered a replacement and then they delivered the original back to me. That spare mascara then sold the next day at full RRP. My customers pay Younique the price they charge for products and then pay me my commission.

I can buy a mascara from poundland or superdrug and it will be a safe and regulated product. It would probably make me look like I have glued a dead spider to my face, but it will be about £30 cheaper.

And, yes I have had a look at the younique website, and that's what it looks like.

I refuse to believe that anyone joins a mlm to get cheap mascara!!!

lazy because she then spoke about Boots, and I concentrated on that. My fault.

I don't get what's not transparent about Y. Colleagues and Team Members have been pulled up for making false claims / breaking the terms of their agreements. My upline has sent 2 messages out today alone warning against buying yourself into being active and holding stock - it's not necessary or encouraged (and as Chammy said, it's $125 in 3 months, not per month. If you can't sell that much, you should honestly give up. Which is the point of having that rule - if you're not actively selling, why should they continue to host a webpage for you?). I read about the comp plan online as part of my research and understood it. Recruitment is not the primary goal, sales are. We have scientists testing our products and declaring them to work just as Boots do, plus the reviews of independent bloggers, vloggers, journalists etc.

Look, I know there are ruthless, unethical MLM's out there (and I am obviously going to defend the one I joined) but, as always, I am just trying to make the point that not all MLM's are the same.

grief Y cosmetics are just as regulated as your Poundland / Superdrug makeup - they have to be to be sold in Europe. However, yours will be made in China, most likely tested on animals and made using the cheapest ingredients available. That's your choice.

Do you mean none of the ingredients on younique products have ever undergone toxicity tests on animals, or do you mean that all,/some of the ingredients have been tested on animals, but the finished product hasn't?

Judging from how some (most?) Y sellers operate trinity it does seem that all MLMs are fundamentally the same - they're legal pyramid schemes. Not all sellers behaving the same is perhaps the difference you want to focus on. Unless you feel you can speak for the company? But you've assured us before you're not a shill...

I don't understand the point you're making in your last paragraph.

I mean Y don't test the products on animals but I understand they are working towards the Leaping Bunny accreditation. One of those steps was to move all production to the US (plus Italy for the lip stains).

There's no such thing as a legal pyramid scheme. Not all telesales agents operate the same, not all gas fitters operate the same - that's human nature. Y has a set of rules for us to operate within and I stick to them. If others don't, please don't tar me with the same brush.

My last paragraph was in response to Grief who seemed to imply that Y wasn't regulated.

So you are saying that the products are not tested on animals but the ingredients might be?

trinity, quite aside from the fact the only moral question I had asked was how you can bear to be associated with a company of such dubious provenance, which you declined to answer, I see no tarring.

The only way in which you could be 'tarred with the same brush' is by your own sense of belonging: you have somehow aligned yourself with younique in such a way that goes beyond the typical employer employee relationship.

You seem heavily invested in younique and its defence on MN. I work for an organisation which I love and which frequently comes under criticism. One of my jobs is to defend it publicly. In spite of my feelings of loyalty, I cannot relate to your level of assimilation with younique. Sometimes I just shrug. It's ok that people don't like where I work. You are either brainwashed or a paid-for shill in spite of your protestations.

I beg to differ with your statement that there is no such thing as a legal pyramid scheme. That's exactly what MLMs are - it's a colloquial oxymoronic statement which describes these schemes very well provided you accept that MLMs are about recruitment. You've read the threads - the arguments have been set out time and again. If you don't agree don't just turn the proposition down flat - defend your position articulately as the 'don't tar me with the same brush' line is tiresome and distracting nobody. You appear educated and in possession of critical capacities. Have you read Merchants of Deception?

chemmy "xenu1: I do sell at RRP, I don't personally buy in any stock accept for my own personal use. "
OK. I don't know your personal biz setup. Without publicly quoted business P&L accounts we'll never know for sure. But even you can see the "PRS" encourages personal use of the products by distributors. And EVERY MLM uses the same hook: personal use by converted distributors who recruit people below who also personally use. No-one every really retails; the MLM makes its money by personal use of its products by the army of "Independent Business Owners" and the MLM and hi-pins from the business tools, personal planners and seminars.
Best of luck anyway, and please keep your eyes open :)

Maybe I am over invested ... I also love the main company I work for and do anything I can to promote them. But to say I am heavily invested in Y's defence on MN is a bit much. I haven't responded to any threads for ages. I am also much more loyal to my main employer than Y.

The definition of a pyramid scheme is that it supplies no products / income to anyone but the instigator - no one ever receives the goods they pay for. That's one of the main things that makes it illegal. Y (and the other MLM's mentioned previously) do supply an actual product, ergo they are not a pyramid scheme. It is MLM. A MLM would be a pyramid scheme if it supplied no product. The fact there are layers and more at the bottom than at the top does not equal a pyramid scheme. It's a beauraucratic organisation, like most businesses (but not my main employer, funnily enough ... we're much more of an adhocracy)

Xenu I can't speak for Chammy, but as I have said elsewhere, at least 80% of my PRS are to others. Maybe more. I'd have to add it up.

oh, so now it's about the semantics of the phrase "pyramid scheme". nice try trinity. LOL @ an MLM is a bureaucratic organisation - hahahahah. you so funny.

still, I should thank you, because I'm planning to use some of the technqiues you and Chammy use to obfuscate the issues, in the TV satire page. I've noticed that whenever we start nailing one of you on something you basically go "ooh look over there" ...like with the semantics of the phrasing we use.

I don't believe you. bottom line.

trinity writes: "The definition of a pyramid scheme is that it supplies no products / income to anyone but the instigator - no one ever receives the goods they pay for. That's one of the main things that makes it illegal. Y (and the other MLM's mentioned previously) do supply an actual product"

Its is illegal in UK to run a money transfer scheme (e.g. "Hearts", or "Women empowering Women") where the new entrants just "gift" cash upwards in the vain hope of cashing out when they reach the top.

BUT - and check eyespyings excellent analysis on the "Fl / MLM Thread" MLMs get round this by supplying a crap high-profit "product" - Nutrilite vitamins was the first - in return for cash. Its the same principle though.

(It is also illegal to load IBOs with loads of stock, to be legal the MLM must at least offer to refund unused stock. In practice MLMs wing this by getting the IBOs to purchase stock for own use. It still piles up in the garage tho)

Then there's the cost of sign-up, business tools, seminars...

Grief: To answer your question - no, Younique has not conducted an in-depth cruelty-free review into each ingredient back to the ingredient's original source (at this moment) but the overall product hasn't been tested on animals.

"I can't speak for Chammy, but as I have said elsewhere, at least 80% of my PRS are to others. Maybe more. I'd have to add it up."

12% of my total sales are my own purchases and all but my Presenter's kit were paid for with my free/half-price incentives (not actual cash) - I just went through all my orders ;)

The comment about sign up, tools and seminars...yes, sign-up is necessary but you get full size products for that. Tools and seminars are optional - I've paid p&p on a set of free business cards and that's it. The latest seminar in the UK is in December, is £55 and for that your get lunch, a full 3 course meal and disco in the evening; not much different to a works Christmas party - and before anyone says "most work places don't make you do training before a work's party" I have worked in places that have had you attend a training day or few hours before the party at the party's venue.

At the end of the day, I didn't comment on this post to try and convince anyone that we are completely the opposite of what they think, I came to give my opinion to the opening poster about direct sales. I have had 2 bad experiences and I'm currently having a good one. I don't like to be told I'm conning people because I'm not, I don't spin lies or exaggerate the truth about anything I do. Yes there are bad reps and bad team leaders who guide those reps to doing and saying unethical things. The point both trinity and I are trying to make is that it isn't EVERY rep for EVERY company.

Also if you don't like the mascara then fair enough, I'm not trying to convince you otherwise but there are people who do and those are the people I give a damn about. There are customers who don't like the mascara but love the other products, again they are the ones I want to focus my time on - not those who are judging the products and company because it is a MLM business model or because they have seen and concentrated on the bad eggs within the company; if you have tried the products and don't like them then that's fair enough.

-I do this as a hobby.
-I earn pocket money + free make-up.
-I did my research, I CHOSE to do this - nobody conned me, told me lies and I went into it with my eyes open that I might end up being a whole £69 out of pocket (though I use the make-up) but I'm not, I'm in profit.
-I don't hound people to sign up - I now have one team member and she chose to sign-up under me because I was honest and helpful; not because I chased her/fed her lies/exaggerated anything (she did her research before even talking to me) but being a hobby seller I probably won't ever make a penny from having her on my team.
-I am not out of pocket and if I quit tomorrow then I won't have ANY stock to try and get rid of.

Hi Chemmy, many thx for your replies and information. I wish you all the best. Just a comment:

"The latest seminar in the UK is in December, is £55 and for that your get lunch, a full 3 course meal and disco in the evening; not much different to a works Christmas party - and before anyone says "most work places don't make you do training before a work's party" I have worked in places that have had you attend a training day or few hours before the party at the party's venue."

Me too. But work usually picks up the tab for the event (meal etc). Cant think of a works do where they expected me to pay for the event? (no one would have attended, for a start! :)) And the training would be on work's time, not mine.

Maybe not the actual training but I have worked at many places where they expect you to pay for the evening events. One company I worked for wanted more than I quoted for the Younique seminar once and that was only for the evening meal/entertainments not lunch ;) they stumped up a drink each.

But like I said it is optional, I'm not going because for me the event, travel and overnight accommodation all together is a little too much; especially that close to Christmas.

In answer to the original question, yes I do this. I do Phoenix cards. I do this alongside another part time job. Currently I'm not doing a lot with it - I've bought some Christmas brochures, but not doing any events really this year unless I'm asked specifically. At the moment, it provides a small amount of 'pocket money', which I don't need to feel guilty about spending on myself. There are times where I've put more time and effort into it, and then it has paid more. The good thing about the products is that they are actually cheaper than most of the high street alternatives and the quality is very good. I can recruit a team if I want, but there is no pressure to do so. Having seen a lot of stuff on Facebook recently about other mlms (mostly Juice Plus), I am grateful that Phoenix has very strict guidelines about what we can say in our posts (lots of others are breaking the law by not including a statutory notice about potential earnings), and our product does not have to be backed up by any 'pseudo science'.