tax credits chat re cuts 2016

[SuMBODY]

namechanged .

as a family of 5, both me and dh work full time, 1 of the dcs is disabled so we receive the disabled and severely disabled element of tax credits, as well as a little extra as our wages aren't the best.
With the proposed changes to tax credits, we are set to lose approx £70 a week, now this may not seem a lot to some, but having a child with extra needs, this money is a huge relief to us and helps us immensely.
Now the thought of losing it means some serious cutbacks to my family , overtime is not an option at present for me or dh because I have only recently gotten my 20 hour contract upped to a 30 after 9 year !
It is an extremely worrying and stressful time for my family, and I imagine others are feeling it too.
it is awful that the cuts are mainly being targeted at those who work, yes the benefit cap is being lowered for those that don't work, but that's another thread.
I keep seeing articles online and in newspapers that estimates families will be up to £1200 worse off a year, when infact we will be nearly £3000 worse off.
As long as David Cameron and George Osbourne are sitting pretty after claiming their petty expenses is all that matters I suppose
They dont see how it is affecting everyone as individuals :(
just thought id start a post incase anyone wants to discuss.

You really think it's just about not being able to afford the latest trends or furniture?

They are impoverishing people on a grand scale and don't give a flying fuck. It's about people not being able to afford to eat or heat their homes, not about a nostalgic hark back to forty fucking years ago.

But I do remember the time before we had tax credits and wonder how we all coped back then

My parents paid £270 a month to rent a 4 bedroom house with secure tenure (sitting tenants pre thatcher) rent was the same all through the 90s
I pay £950 to rent a 3 bed house with no secure tenure
Plus a fucking fortune in utilities, taxes and costs to run my vehicle etc etc.
I earn well over minimum wage but I can't keep a modest home on my income. I only have one child too. I think I'll lose all but a few quid of my tax credits.

Oh yeah and my mum (intelligent university educated) never worked outside of school hours and unskilled jobs because there was no help for childcare and they couldn't pay for it. What a waste.

expat

I don't know what your problem is but I was responding to a comment about the 70's.
I don't know why you presume I don't know what is happening.

I'm not quite sure that the entitled to calculator is entirely accurate. I've used it a few times in the past and it's always calculated my entitlement a lot lower than I actually got. I've just done it again and it said that based on my dh's income that we would only be entitled to £45 housing benefit a week yet we already get £91 per week, and then it went on to say that we will be £200 per month worse off next year. I also have a disabled child so if this bit is true then I don't know how we'll cope.

Expat, a lot of those people affected made their own choices. Choices like working the odd few hours or not at all, living in aread where their salary can't stretch too or having children they couldnt afford to support. Should the government continue to throw tax payers money at them or should they quite rightly say enough is enough.

People want a more equal society. We have numerous ways of help with funded childcare so women can return to work. However, whilst we have people being topped up to higher incomes than some who work double or triple the hours then there are going to be voters that want to see a more equal footing. A society where people provide for themselves and any family they choose to have. Benefits should be a last resort when times are bad, not there to allow people to stay home or work part time.

Young adults starting out no longer expect to struggle, they expect grants for furniture, grants for babies, their rent paid etc. A sign of how society has changed.

Yes, of course but we don't need all the gadgets we have today really
depends what you mean by 'need' doesn't it, we have basic needs, oxygen, water, nourishment and protection from the elements, then there are various other types of need.

As human culture becomes more sophisticated we are able to flourish and develop culturally.
We have self esteem needs, to feel as if we are important and can fully participate in modern culture
Or would you prefer just a basic subsistence sort of life where your waking hours are taken up with foraging for food and keeping warm?

Oh dear, it looks like my comment has upset folks. It wasn't my intention was just stating the facts as I see them.
If people have no money / less money obviously they can't have the same lifestyle they had before. Including myself.
I don't see how that's such a hard thing to see.
To some it will be putting bread and butter on the table and meeting basic needs, to others it will be for going gadgets or holidays, for others new furniture. For some takeaways and entertainment.
I don't agree with the cuts ffs.

no govt wants a situation where large numbers of people are angry and feel they have been treated unfairly, I'm not suggesting that they actually care about people, rather that pissing us off too much is not a winning strategy

The problem with tax credits is that they aren't tax credits.

The premise of the policy was originally to lessen how much families paid in tax, according to need.

What's happened is that families pay loads of tax then have to claim these benefits to afford to live because they don't have enough to live on because they pay so much tax. All this movement of money boosts gdp so the government of the day can claim they are running the economy/country well and so win elections where they can pursue their ideological agenda.

It's a big con that millions have fallen for.

we'll be over £5o a year worse off, I am absolutely dreading whats coming. I've applied for jobs to increase my hours but am getting nowhere.

sorry over £50 a week worse off, not a year, I wish...

We are totally better off not working, these are the calculations if we didn't work:
Tax Credits £255
Income Support £87.35
Carers allowance £62.10
Child benefit £48.10

Total of @ £450 a week plus we would get full rent and council tax on top.
So say 1800 month plus housing benefit and council tax.

Working , we get a little over this BUT we then have full rent £95 and council tax £26 plus 3x school dinners £30, dentist and prescriptions, so we are worse off going to work :(

We would be exempt from benefits cap as 1 of Dcs has a disability. How can Mr c claim 'working pays' does it shite !!!!

If my situation was exactly the same next year, then the tax credit cuts would be pushing me into a position where I would be better off not working than working. Luckily, the 15hrs free child care will kick in for my 2 DC in January, so that will offset some of the tax credit loss.

If things were staying exactly the same, I would be technically £100 better off in work from April. That £100 would automatically be wiped out by the petrol costs of getting to work, without even considering the extra benefits that would come with not being in work (free prescriptions, Healthy Start vouchers, etc). For context, I'm a lone parent, work 30 hours per week, 2 DCs in nursery for 3 days, earn c.£30k and live in a relatively affordable area of the country. If the cuts would put me into the position where I'd be better off on benefits, then where is the incentive going to be for people on minimum wage (or even the so-called living wage) in more expensive areas of the country?

SuMBODY you're unlikely to get enoug HB and CTS to cover the actual costs. I'm not sure if you're better off without you, or both you and your DP working. If both then you'd claim JSA, be subject to sanctions for the slightest infringement, or something they deem as an infringement if they can. You would be subject to workfare and awful courses. And have absolutely no career prospects.

My brother has been subject to all this since he was kicked off ESA. It made him even more ill. Eventually, after years of JSA torture, he is now in work. And really quite ill, so don't know how long it will last.

I know the tax credits cuts are bad, they are going to hit me badly too. But saying things like you'd be better off out of work, even if financially true which is unlikely, is never going to be true in the full sense of the outcome. And as a family of 5 you are going to be hit by the cap at a very near point in the future as it plummets under these bastard Tories.

Katharine if you claim carers allowance you receive income support not JSA.

Only one of the parents though AndNowItsSeven.

It doesn't matter Katharine you can still claim IS. Also the cap doesn't apply if anyone receives dla in the family. I agree with the last two words of your post though!

Katherine we would get full housing benefit and have to pay £1.76 towards the council tax.

also my dh suffers from depression and social anxiety and has been offered sick notes from doctors, but we decided against this.
So that would excuse him from doing this patronising menial courses.

The thing that is stopping us from quitting our jobs and claiming benefits is my dcs, what kind of example is it to set the dcs by not working ?

my friend and her dh have the same family set up as us, same number of dcs 1 of whom is disabled and if im honest they are raking it in ! with no rent and under £2 a week to pay in council tax. (automatic exemption from benefits cap due to disability) this week alone she has managed to pull out £350 for xmas presents (I was with her xmas shopping so seen for myself) added to that is the £100 she has spent on takeaways (I kid you not! her kitchen is getting refurbished, she is without a cooker ) then money to live on, plus they both smoke , costing £55 a week.

next week for her is a "bad week" as she calls it because she only gets £360
AND she WONT be affected with the tax credits cuts next year .

Mr C and Mr O , certainly have their priorities correct !!!!

I'm claiming carers allowance and income support and it's far easier than claiming JSA, no sanctions or workfare, although I do have to attend interviews once a month at the Jobcentre but with no requirement or pressure to seek work.

Your sums look about right Sumbody, although I'm a lone parent and have a different number of dc and also get some disability top ups for myself as well. My rent is paid in full and I pay about £2 a week of my council tax. We get FSM and prescriptions and also can apply for random bits like free swimming in our borough and payments towards heating bills, plus charitable grants.

I'm over the benefits cap figure (but don't get capped as we get two lots of DLA in the household) but I certainly wouldn't say I'm raking it in! The reason that the amounts are higher is because being disabled costs a lot - I have to pay out a lot more on specialised/additional services and items that healthy adults and children wouldn't have to even consider spending money on. So it's money that can't be spent on luxuries, but of course there's nothing to stop families like your friend spending it on luxuries rather than essentials for the disabled person. For me it's not a choice about whether to work, my DS is simply too severely disabled for me to consider it as there is no suitable childcare available, and my own health needs are also very high (we both get highest rate DLA and are under consultant care). I would love to be in a position where DS and I are both healthy and settled enough for me to consider working, I think you're very fortunate to be that lucky, regardless of how the tax credits payments work out.

SuMBODY it's very very unlikely that your DH would pass the WCA with depression and anxiety. Nobody does.

Sumbody, as a non working parent with a disabled child I am definitely not raking it in.

Would you like to take the child's disability and give it to your own child?

I certainly could not just pull £300 out for Xmas from my income. Not could I refurbish my kitchen.

In fact a big fault has occurred with my car which is my lifeline. I cannot afford to repair it at the moment. It's sitting on the drive and going nowhere. That's the reality of life on benefits. It would be the same if my washing machine/fridge or cooker broke down.

My council tax contribution is £30 a month so cannot believe your acquaintances are paying "less than £2 a week".

I don't work as it becomes too complex when trying to meet the needs of my DS.
I would be unaffected by the benefit cap but I don't reach it anyway.

The Tories haven't got things right because they are penalising families doing the right thing but who happen to be low paid.

Envying others who have disabled children isn't great.

To those considering leaving employment to claim benefits as they would be better off on benefits, I would keep in mind that you'd be putting yourself in a precarious position as there have already been massive sweeping changes to the benefits system. The benefits you would rely on could be taken away at any time and you would be in a vulnerable position if you had to move to a new rented property etc. It's already harder to rent somewhere if you are on benefits as some landlords are choosing only to rent to working people. The exemption from the benefit cap could be revoked.
Unless, as a previous poster you are simply unable to work due to severe ill health or caring responsibilities, I would certainly not consider leaving employment on this premise.
I work with carers and some would desperately love to work but there is simply no childcare provision to enable them to do this. A few have managed to set up small businesses so they can get around this problem but obviously not all can do this.

I agree that people have become used to a much better standard of living than they did years ago. I grew up in the eighties with a dad who was a teacher and mother who was a nurse. My mother worked nights so she could look after us during the day until we went to school. She must have been knackered. If we needed more money she would do shifts in a care home or work behind a bar on an evening. We still rarely ate out, walked everywhere and got toys only at Christmas and birthdays. Expectations were different then.

Sumbody claiming benefits because you are caring for your disabled son is not a bad example. Neither is your dh not working due to poor mental health. If you believe that you have been taken in my Tory propaganda.

Some people use their tax credits literally to put food on the table and heat their hmes, some use them for days out or holidays. It entirely depends on your situation. I have friends who bought their homes years ago when house prices were relatively low and their mortgages are virtually paid off or very low. I know people in this situation who use their tax credits for holidays and days out. They will be able to absorb the drop although they probably won't like it. I know others with high rents/ mortgages and high childcare costswho use their tax creidts to keep their kids fed and clothed, for them the drop is going to be a massive issue and cause real hardship.It's a shame there can't be a system which targets help better to those that really need it.