Can we afford to have a baby??

[Planningtobeamum1]

I want to start this thread off by saying I'm not moaning at all about my situation, just need some external advice!!

My husband and I are planning on trying to start our family soon. We've been married for nearly two years and both work hard earning about £40k each. We live on the outskirts of London, TW15 area, where property is slightly cheaper than in London itself. We bought our 3 bedroom 'family home' early last year in preparation of starting a family. We both work in London, meaning long days, my husband is in the Met and so works a shift pattern. We own our house but have a mortgage of just under £1600 per month, combined with household bills, food etc leaves us with about £700 to live off each month. We've worked on reducing our bills and cutting out luxuries, but transport costs add up for us (my train fare is about £300 per month). This is absolutely fine for us both now, but we are not sure how it can work financially with a new baby since our take home pay is unlikely to increase greatly over the next couple of years.

It's difficult to find out costs but childcare costs seem to be about £1000 per month and finding a drop off/pick up which fits with my commute seems virtually impossible. Local jobs in my field are rare and pay much less, we wouldn't be able to afford this house on one salary....

We just can't work out at present how anyone affords to have a child, let alone more than one. Selling our home and downsizing seems ludicrous, since property is just so expensive and now smaller properties cost what we paid for ours.

OP get rid of the car, the cats, the costly and unnecessary food and drink, forget your savings and you'll be awash with cash.

Swallowing - but op has said what the savings are for, the house renovations ( so I assume they bought a fixer upper to save money), and for insurance for the house/ life/ motorcycle all which they need as otherwise they will have a huge bill at the end of the year.

Another poster who doesn't understand TheSwallowingHandmaiden's anger at this thread. Hope OP will come back!

OP, if you're committed to the food spend and the loans are long term, get a lodger in. There's some demand on SpareRoom for Mon-Fri lodgings, so you get the house to yourself on weekends if you want your own space.

Re food, get one or two stew/slow cooker recipes under your belt - they are usually very simple, tasty, hearty, can be batch cooked and can cut your food costs down without any compromise. I do one a week, which feeds us for 6 meals (2 dinners for both of us, 2 lunches for me) and have cut my food bill by £20 a week. Find one or two items in your shop that can be substituted for cheaper versions of the same thing a la "Eat Well for Less". No need to sell the house, cats, motorbike or DH!

Some good advice on here about how to cut costs but the part of your post that jumped out at me was about finding childcare that fits with your work/commute hours. It isn't just about the cost, its also about keeping your job.

My advice would be to look into your childcare options and commuting times very carefully:
What time trains do you need to catch?
What is the earliest you can be guaranteed to leave work/latest arrive at work?
What hours do local nurseries and CMs do?
Can you work flexibly at all?
How many drop offs/pick ups will your dh be able to do if he works shifts? Will he be able to do drop offs/pick ups with the motorbike?

If your answers to the above suggest it isn't going to be workable then you probably need to assume one of you will have to cut back work hours/work locally and have a lower income.

I don't know anyone who has managed two parents working full time with a young child and a long commute without either a flexible (costly) nanny or nearby family to help.

Looking at your budget the house insurance seems expensive but I don't know what it's like in your area. The car costs a lot at c.£200 per month as it's not used for commuting, could your DH use the car instead of motorbike for commute or is that not practical?

I think you need to get to a position where one of your £200 spends (loan from dad, credit cards or home improvement) is paid off, temporarily get rid of car until more of those are paid off then reduce costs elsewhere. If you don't have any family childcare options nearby your lifestyle will probably have to drastically change anyway, eg meals or nights out, so you will probably find yourselves with a good chunk of your disposable income to spend on childcare.

It sounds as if you're in a difficult area if property prices are really high but you still have to pay so much for travel costs. So it's a weigh up between stay where you are and cut down on spending or live same lifestyle but in cheaper housing elsewhere.

Swallowing you do realise that having enough money to enjoy yourself AND have children isn't illegal, don't you?

The OP is very sensibly querying her budget before falling pregnant, rather than just leaping in there and then spending the next 5 years scrabbling for money to pay the bills.

And I would agree with million, I don't know any couples where both work fulltime without having either a nanny, an aupair, or very accommodating and local grandparents to help out with childcare in terms of late pick ups, sick days, early starts and so on. Childminders and nurseries just don't offer long/flexible enough hours.

Hi, this is all really useful stuff. This was a general query for advice to give us a chance to get 'our house in order' before starting to start our family.

My employer does have childcare vouchers and I had already thought about childcare near to work to help with drop off times etc. There are a few people locally who take children on their commute so assume they are doing that. Thinking logically, it would make sense to start/finish earlier to reduce rush hour impact and there seems to be a number of nurseries near Waterloo Station. Although there are some huge cons with this ( long days, potential train problems), this combined with a working from home day should hopefully work.

I know we are lucky with our salaries and this post wasn't intended to cause offence. I know our mortgage is huge (our own doing) a luxury and that we are fortunate to be able to own our own property.

The constructive criticism of our expenditure, particularly food, is great. We will look into online meat buying, Lidl/Aldi and also keeping a money diary to see where it goes. I'm not keen on a lodger for a year or so and so we will cut back and save as much as possible going forward.

Cat food will be downgraded

I feel I need to add this - contrary to what some people have assumed, we don't go out regularly (once every 2 months- I don't think this is extravagant), drink alcohol or smoke. We don't have foreign holidays (last few years we've stayed with family in Scotland) and when we buy clothes it's not branded - our clothes are supermarket, primark or my new fav Matalan. Our unaccounted for money goes into trying to do up our house - which takes up all weekends and my DH days off.

Op you don't need to justify yourself at all. Quite frankly even if you were spanking all your spare cash on Michelin starred restaurants and city breaks, it really doesn't matter. Enquiring about the real cost of having a child is a genuine query.

I've had childcare near my workplace and near home. It is easier to be near to home as you can both drop off/collect. You might also want the odd day off together for a cinema trip or lunch out and if you don't have a babysitter it can be helpful.

I think that you afford to have baby. It will be hard but it worth it!

You've only mentioned nurseries OP, have you investigated local CMs? They can sometimes be a bit more flexible than a nursery. Even if their normal hours are 8-6, it might be worth asking if it would be possible to come to a private arrangement. It sounds like you're in a commuterville area, so there may well be an untapped market for childcare before 8 and after 6. Perhaps local CMs would welcome this information.

Seems like lots of practical budgeting tips on here. My own advice would just be to go ahead and have a baby if that is what you both want, and don't over-stress about the detail. You are earning plenty between you, and truly you cannot plan everything in detail in advance, as events unfold you will deal with them. I was made redundant while pregnant, then re-instated half way through my notice, then a week later DH was sacked without warnin...So all our attempts at advance planning were repeatedly trashed! DH was out of work for 8 months which effectively cut our income in half while I was on mat leave. The thing which really surprised me was how little money we actually needed at the time, just not going out to work saved loads, commuting costs, sandwiches, office clothes - I don't really know what but being at home with a baby was way cheaper than going to work! When baby started nursery was when we really struggled, so start the childcare vouchers as soon as you can, and build up a reserve. And do not go mad buying expensive baby stuff when the time comes, we found that people were more than delighted to clear out their attics and dump their baby stuff on us, the only things I bought were a second hand pram and a new cot mattress.and you can pick up decent second hand stuff at second hand sales eg NCT. And remember that creating a baby may take more time than you expect, so don't wait for some distant 'perfect' time to try...

I got pregnant somewhat unexpectedly last year. DH and I combined earn about £40k (full time, will drop a little when we're both back at work in the new year). We're up north though so our mortgage is much less than yours.

While I was pregnant we had a good look at our budget and started trimming stuff back. I'd recommend a software program called You Need A Budget. It helped us save loads without even really trying - it just meant we stopped spending money on crap and we gradually built up a little cushion.

If we can do it, you can. Start now and you'll manage to build up a very healthy safety net I reckon. Obviously it's great that you've already written out your budget but I'd bet that unless you've gone back through your bank statements and receipts you'll be spending money somewhere and not noticing it - even little bits all add up. (Sorry if that sounds patronising - it's not meant to be - but we were surprised how much we were haemorrhaging each month!)

I'm now on SMP so we've had a cut to our income of about £600 a month. I'm surprised how little money I spend now I'm not at work. I did a KIT day last week and bought my lunch and was shocked how much money I spent. It has completely changed my mindset.

Just a word about using a nursery near work - taking a fractious toddler on a busy rush hour train every day is not fun. My friend used a nursery near Waterloo and left after a term and put her daughter in a nursery nearer home, mostly due to the stress of the commute.

Thank you again, I've tried to look into child minders but not sure where a good place to look is, I've tried google which has brought up some many websites/agencies advertising child minders but have no idea which ones are reputable and it's difficult to tally CM with Ofsted registration. Is there a well respected site where CM advertise? It is certainly more preferable to taking a toddler on the train....

I've downloaded the 'you need a budget' app to my phone, but need to dust off the home computer to install it there before I can use it (???). It looks like a great tool for budgeting and recording where our money goes. I think we are guilty on buying lunches, snacks, bits & bobs which gradually add up over a month and then curb this. I spent £4 yesterday at work even when taking a packed lunch in

Have a look here parentknowhow.surreycc.gov.uk/kb5/surrey/fsd/results.page?term=tw15&familychannel=5

Ofsted let you search providers by distance from your home:

reports.ofsted.gov.uk/

This only covers people who've been Ofsteded though, so you might miss the great new CM down the road who's only been open a year and not been assessed yet. Your local council might have a list of childcare providers in the area too, ours does. Another thing you might find useful when seeking long hours childcare- I live in South Manchester, and there are nurseries close to the hospitals and airport that offer longer/more flexible hours outside the normal 8-6. Because staff in those places tend to do shifts. So if you're like 6 miles from a hospital or whatever, and hadn't thought about contacting the nurseries next to it, might be worth checking them out.

There's this site as well:

www.childcare.co.uk

You do sound like the sort of person who tends to spend a lot just by being out and about, so you might be pleasantly surprised how little you get through when you're mostly at home.

Yep, you need the desktop software to use YNAB properly. It does cost about £20 I think but it easily saved us more than that in the first month alone so it's well worth it!

Something my friend does as well, which I've never done but she swears by, is that every time she resists a little frivolous purchase like a coffee or whatever, she transfers the money she would have spent straight into a savings account via banking app on her phone. I think that really enables you to see just how much you could save.

I really, really wouldn't take a baby on a commute. I don't see that working at all, I'm afraid.

A train commute, that is.

OP - You'll get used to the way some people talk on here - just ignore them :) Some people don't have anything better to do with their time!

Firstly, it's fantastic that you want to try for a baby! Remember it's not 100 % about the money, it's also about the emotional support you can offer them along side that.

Also, I apologise for this long message! >.< Basically, what I am trying to say is that you cannot change you spending habbits drastically overnight. It takes practice, trial and error! Have a Google of "You need a budget - YNAB" - I haven't used it yet, but it's supposed to be AMAZING.

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Try and look at each expense, one expense at a time. It's a little less of a shock to the system then.

So firstly, maybe decrease your food budget by say £50 a month. Put that £50 straight into a jar labelled BABY! The more the jar adds up, the more you will want to cut back to save for the baby jar.

As a side note/comparison... We are two adults (and a step child on weekends), our grocery bill (including cleaning products etc.) is budgeted at £200 a month absolute max. We never spend this much, in fact usually a lot less because we prepare meals from scratch, or near-scratch, look out for offers and freeze everything most things! We shop in Tesco, Asda, Sainsburys, Lidl (occasionally) and Waitrose (occasionally)

We also have two cats - 1 kitten and one adult. The kitten has 2 Felix pouches a day, the adult has 1 and they have dry food throughout the day. They used to be a posh brand of biscuits which we weaned them off of on to Go-Cat! Which is a 1/3 of the price and still not supermarket basic brand!

We currently spend about £30 pm on wet food, £15 pm on dry about £25 on wood pellet cat litter - we will also be switching to a slightly cheaper store brand clumping litter gradually. After all, it is literally just being put in the bin. We use a lot of litter because they are purely indoor cats! So I understand how expensive they can be. Try and buy what is on offer - your cat's may appreciate the change of food?

Perhaps then try changing where you shop, when you feel a bit more confident. (Personally, I shop all over the place and don't do my shopping in one store.)

When you feel ready you can move on to the next expense!

If the Virgin phone / TV doesn't include internet, get rid of that! We have just standard free-view (contemplating buying a recording box to go with it for £120 ish). Our super-fast internet with BT is £35 pm, which includes a phone line (but we have no phone to plug into it! LOL).

We don't necessarily go without, we're just more careful!
Good luck! Keep us posted with how you get on :)

We take our baby on the commute! It's fine, but our line is such you get a seat- my P starts a bit early and leaves early too. We also don't have a tube transfer- it's 20 mins on the train and 20 mins walk. If it involved multiple changes it would be horrible. If you're prepared with stories and snacks it can almost be nice. And you don't worry about late fees if the train is delayed. The only annoying thing is if we want a day off but leave dc in nursery- but we're usually going out in town anyway. The reason is that we have a very good workplace nursery. If you have an in- house nursery you cn salary sacrifice the lot and save the tax. We save about £300 a month this way. Do the Met have one? You can also look at compressed hours- which I do- 4 long days a week. No drop in income but saves a nursery day.
We are both full time and don't have a nanny or family. We just have to take a day off if DC is ill. I travel a bit so DP has to flex round that but it's fine.
I'm sure the Met has a lot of family-friendly policies so do ensure your partner investigates. It's not just the women's role to work flexi. We've got a friend in the met (something detectivey) and he has changed his shift pattern somehow.

You need to draw up a timeline with when your current expensive contracts end.

Particularly credit card loans and loan to your Dad.

Home improvements won't be forever, hopefully by time baby comes they'll be gone.

Gym membership should be cancelled once contractually allowed, is there a 'pure'/no frills gym you could awa to if required?

Home insurance seems massively excessive unless you are in a crime hotspot or on a floodplain. Ours is circa £130 pa for a 3 bed house, not £600. Shop around when your next contract comes up do not just renew.

Phone contracts obviously excessive, don't upgrade your phones when they come to renewal, just switch to PaYG with tesco/giffgaff etc

Childcare will be as much about logistics as about expenses (as from your above expenses, there are loads of easy savings to make). Can either/both of your workplaces be flexible to allow drop offs, collections, flexitime or work from home options? Most nurseries are open 7:30/8-6.

My council has a list of childminders on a website. Have you tried googling for that?

As for the local job, is it really a no go? I agree it could be very stressful to have one parent on shift work and another with a long commute. I think all in that situation has either nanny or grandparents.

I do know people who work full time with no grandparent help and use nursery. We are one of them! But DH has a local job. And both ours are flexible with possibility to work from home.

We have one at year R and a 1yo. We have to both get home at 5.30, dinner at 6, bed at 6.30 for baby. Evening is very stressful. It doesn't get easier I think until they both have later bedtime? So it's something to think about. We didn't do dinner when DC1 was at nursery but you have to for school.