Neighbour wants us to sign a party wall agreement , but planning permission not granted yet

[mummydear]

In fact planning permsiion not applied for as yet, so I find it a bit strange that they want us to sign it . Is this normal ?

DON'T sign it!

They're trying to pull a fast one.

When permission is granted, get your OWN copy of it from the council.

I believe that party wall are separate issue to planning applications and consents. For example, you may have a party wall agreement for a development that would not require planning permission. We are having a loft extension that doesn't require planning permission but were advised that because the conversion required alterations to the party wall in the loft we should enter into a PW agreement.
So not unusual - they're just covering the bases before they do anything more formal (like applying for building regs consent or planning permission from the local planning authority).

Don't think they are pulling a fast one. They can seek an agreement before, during or after any formal applications to the Council. The Party Wall Act provides information and rules within which agreements should work- i.e. your right to employ (at their cost I believe) an party wall surveyor.
Basically the Act exists to ensure that their work doesn't effect the structural integrity of your house and an agreement doesn't preclude you objecting to a formal planning application if one is required.

We haven't even seen a copy of the drawings as yet , and they kicked up a fuss over our planning permisoon , which we won on appeal anyway.

they do need planning permsiion for this as they have used up all the space under permitted development , just though it was a bit odd asking for us to sign something when we dont know the full impact on our property.

I would ask for a copy of the agreement, in that case, and tell them you need to show it to your solicitor.

DO NOT SIGN ANYTHING until you've shown it to a solicitor.

I would definitely ask to see the plans - how else can you make an informed decision? Then you should get an idea of what implication the works would have for your house. If the works wouldn't damage your property structurally, you can still object when a planning application is submitted to the Council. But the agreement is a private legal matter and I don't think that you can withold consent if a surveyor considers that the work wouldn't result in damage to your property. I think?

Thanks both, the neighbour wanted to drop the agreemnet off to us , no mention made of the plans aswell until I asked for a copy.

Really annoying especailly after the fuss they caused with our plans !

To explain: the work in our loft involved cutting 3 holes one brick deep in the party wall at loft level to insert steels.
We didn't go down the party wall agreement route (though we were advised to) because we informally agreed the work, showed plans and so on, with our neighbours and we have a good relationship. Also, we paid for our builder to do some work to their side of the roof, replacing flashing, as a goodwill gesture.
But it sounds like given that they objected to your application they want to make sure that they have your assurance that if they do get planning permission, you wont then say that they can't build it, or delay the build, by refusing to enter into the party wall agreement.
Would reiterate- signing the agreement if you are happy that there wouldn't be structural damage (obviously you would need to see plans) does not mean you can object to the principle of the planning application on legitimate planning grounds (loss of light/prospect etc.).

I should imagine they're feeling pretty embarrassed!
Cheek!

Oh lord - it's me again:

"does not mean you can't object to the planning application"

So Pooka on the bit abit about party wall agreemnets and planning permsiion granted , with our planning permsiion granted by appeal could a neighbour still not allow it to be built by refusing to enter in to a pary wall agreement?

I know that they could delay it by having their own survey etc etc but could they prevent the build ?

Hmm. No, I don't think they could in the end so long as the party wall surveyor was happy that on the basis of the plans that were permitted, and any building regs technical drawings, your extension wouldn't effect their property.
I think that the Party Wall Act exists to ensure that development doesn't result in adjacent houses falling down and also to prevent neighbours from gratuitously stopping neighbours from building and also stuff like routine maintenance of their house (like needing to go onto the neighbours land to fix things like guttering and flashing and so on).
I say I think! I'm a planner, and so only have a rudimentary knowledge because I used to just start the spiel about it being a private legal matter A proper building surveyor at your council (building control) would have a better idea, or your own surveyor if you had one for your plans.

Thanks Pooka .

No probs.

We had a nightmare with our neighbours regarding the PWAct.We had all the planning permission and the neighbours were agreeable to the scaffolding being on their property for about6 weeks,even offered to store stuff for us..All hunky dory until 2 days before building work due to start they put a stop it.They insisted the PWact be put into action as the side of our house is the boundary wall and within 3 metres of their house.They told us they wanted to stop us doing the extension ,so in effect made it difficult every step of the way.
In the end it cost us an extra £2000.00 in fees(theirs and ours) .We also had to bring the wall in 10in as their last bit of power was to refuse to let the gutters overhang their property eventhough they already do in the old part of the house.

They moved a year later....bastards!

I can just imagine that happening with us .

as I understand it if your neighbours are having work done that might affect your wall then they have to pay for a surveyor. You can between you agree to appoint one surveyor who acts on behalf of both parties or you can have a surveyor each. either way the people doing the work pay. It seems to me that it's this stage that's important to the non-building neighbour - this is when actual plans will be agreed and work checked. I'm not entirely sure where the party wall agreement fits in with this - it possibly just commits you to co-operating (which I think you pretty much have to do anyway). I don't think they're trying to pull a fast one.

ggirl - it sounds more like they were protecting their property from damage - which I'd do regardless of when/if I was planning on moving. the fees you refer to were probably surveyors fees. Bit of a pita they left it late admittedly. I speak as someone currently having work done and paying surveyors fees to protect next door from damage. It seems pretty reasonable to me.

With our building work we are going to get party wall agreemnet sorted sooner rather than later , haven't even got a builder yet !

Think all this might work in your favour to a certain extent, in that there could be an element of "you scratch our back...". So no agreement from you unless reciprocal agreement from them.

Yeah your right in one respect Pooka , however the neighbour that we have the most opposition from is our other one, from whom we recived a letter today ( first class recorded ?? )stating that we did not have their permsiion to take down their fence and did not have permsiion to go onto their land and build.

Oh yes by the way we need a Party wall agreement - well thank you neighbour we know that !
First class recorded - they live next door !!!

At least they not asking for a Judical Review of the appeal - which wouldn't have surprised us.

Oh we are going to have fun when we build !