DO YOU KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT THE LAW AND MONEY (PERSONAL MATTERS)

[Starsmum75]

A few years ago my parents and my aunt (mums sister) with her husband decided to buy static caravans to retire into. At the time the four of them were unseperable, spending every holiday together and doing basically everything together. My mum and dad couldnt afford the money upfront to buy a caravan due to it being a luxurious one, at the cost of £50,000. So my uncle loaned my dad the money, and when my mum and dad retire and sell their house they would pay it back. Since then my aunt and my dad have sadly passed away. My uncle has now recently been to a solicitor and is forcing my mum to give him her house, although she has sold the caravan back to the site in order to give him the money off the caravan. He is also saying she owes him £80,000, now because of interest. i am so worried that he is putting her into an early grave, im desperate for help. PLEASE

Is there a loan agreement and if so who is it between and what does it say?

CAB might be worth a visit.
But:
How much did your M&D borrow & when?
How much did she re-pay on sale of the van and when?
Is anything in writing?

There was no loan agreement, he just offered to pay the money for the caravan until my m&d sold their house, but then my dad died and my mum didn't want to sell it and move away from her family. It was £50,000 he borrowed originally he is saying that he wants £30,000 extra for interest.

If there is no loan agreement he can't just decide to take £30k in interest! Heck if there's no loan agreement there's no evidence the money was even a loan not a gift.

Your mum needs to take legal advice and I expect it will be to pay back the money lent eg £50k in the absence of paperwork showing an agreement to pay back anything other than the capital.

Is there anything documented anywhere at all? Emails, letters etc?

Your mum should see a solicitor

she has been to a solicitor but he said that even though it was my d who he had the agreement with, the house is half my d so therefore he still has assets so my uncle can still claim from her house.

If the money was leant to your Dad only it is recoverable from his estate If that includes a half share in the house then this could mean house has to be sold Does your mum accept the50k was borrowedIf so presumably she accepts it has to be paid back Was the deal that interest would be paid? If your uncle leant £50k without any paperwork then he was very stupid
If your mum refuses to pay he will have to go to court

Would probably be best for an agreement to be reached say out of court ,perhaps on the basis that the money will be paid back after your mum's death backedupby a charge

Your mum should go back to the solicitor

This is on the basis that mum accepts she is due to pay the money

Difficult to sees moral argument against this but legally Uncle may find it hard to prove

even Wonga would blush at that interest rate. (actually, maybe not...)

anyway, tell your mum to get legal advice urgently.

She doesn't admit to owing the money because whatever agreement my D had with my U was discussed and arranged when she wasn't around. So basically it's only his say so. Nothing was ever documented about a loan. The funny thing is, is that my U had to sell his house due to buying a propery abroad and needing money to renovate it. So he was so called homeless, and my M took him in, he lived there for almost a year without giving her a penny, then one morning out of the blue says he's been to a solicitor to arrange paper work for her to sign half of her house over to him, the house that her and my D bought when it was just a plan on paper. Since that day he has been determined to take her house off her.

Sounds like he's ripping her off looking for £50k. If that's her share he's then implying the caravan cost £100k? I can't see that. I could imagine the total purchase being £50k having looked at new caravans a couple of years back. Anyway as pp said he can't just pluck an interest figure out of thin air. If he's no official paperwork I can't imagine he's got a leg to stand on.

oh and if he's sold the caravan surely half of the sale value would go to offsetting your dad's loan

If she and your dad did borrow £50k off him then I do think your mum should pay him back.

Whatever the agreement (or lack of one) please reassure your mother that he is a long way from being able to take the house from her.

First of all he has to demonstrate that there was a loan, an agreement to pay it back, and an entitlement to interest. If that is disputed, or any of the figures are in dispute (eg your mum accepts a loan but say at 25k with no interest) then he'd have to get a court judgment to that effect. That would be difficult (although not impossible) because your dad is no longer alive. Only at that point could he potentially start proceedings to force the sale of the house if the court order is not adhered to. Even then he'd have to persuade a Court why it is reasonable to sell the house.

So, point of the post is that there are a number of hurdles he has to get over for there to be a chance of your mum having to sell the house.

There's no evidence to prove any agreement of a loan. It was an oral agreement between him and my dad. My mum has put the caravan up for sale although she has been told it will only sell for £26,000, which she has agreed to it going straight to him. Also she said she was willing to pay him £50+ monthly, and then he put it up to £80,000. Making it impossible for her to pay unless she sells her home. I think he has his mind set on taking her house, which I am going to do everything in my power to make sure it doesn't happen. My mum and dad have work hard all their lives for what they got, and if he gets it she will have nothing. That would finish her off. It's hard to think this is a man who has been such a huge part in her life for many years, and now he wants to bleed her dry and leave her to rot.

If she is trying to dispute there is a loan she is liable to repay then she should be careful about offering payments as this could be seen to be acknowledging the loan

He could get a charge on the house so when your mum passes he gets his cash however without any written agreement I can't see that happening.

It could very well happen if he can convince a court a loan was made and op's mum cannot convince them it was a gift. Presumably there is evidence of funds being transferred because it is such a large amount??

The loan only being made to the op's father is no defence because the uncle became a creditor to the estate upon the op's father's death. If his wife was the sole beneficiary of the estate the loan still has to be repaid.

Any legal action would depend on the following things:

Evidence there was a loan.
Evidence it was not a loan but a gift.
The repayment terms of that loan.

If it is established there was a loan (which from the original post did not appear to be in dispute but from subsequent posts now does - although I get the impression the change of tack may be to try to give a reason not to pay the money back) then the op's mother should pay it back but how and when would depend on the original terms agreed. Fr

...From what the first post said it appears there was a loan for £50k to buy a caravan and the agreement was that the loan would be repaid when the op's parents retired and they would sell their house. And that was the agreement freely entered into by all parties. It is not clear if there is more to it than this or even who the parties involved are (not that it matters if the wife was sole beneficiary of the estate).

Obviously things have sadly changed and now the op's mum wants to stay put. Perfectly understandable. However, the loan still has to be repaid and so the op's mum needs to find a way to come up with the money. Selling the caravan is a good start. Equity release might also be an option but she should take good financial advice first.

The interest may well be unreasonable but without knowing the original terms we don't know. If it was about 8 years ago it may be that the figure has been arrived at using the 8% interest rate required for overdue payments. I think that is unreasonable in circumstances but that would be up to a court to decide and legal proceedings are costly.

As regards whether a charge could be put on the house it would all depend on what a court decides unless the op's mother and uncle come to agreement to do that.

One thing is for sure, we don't have the full story and presumably the solicitor the op's mum saw did and if he thinks there's a liability then the probably is.

If there is nothing written down in an original contract that stated clearly what money was loaned and what interest to be charged and a payment plan, I think it would be very difficult to prove. It will be even harder to prove if it was a verbal agreement between Uncle & the father who has sadly passed away.

If someone dies does the debt die with them or does the spouse inherit the debt ?

As everyone knows assets can increase or decrease over time

I do not think that the Uncle would have any right to the house

I would suggest consulting with CAB

Most solicitors offer 30 minutes free consultation & will provide to you their charges & should be able to offer advice

Suggest if the Uncle continues to hassle, log it with your local police

Suggest telling the Uncle if he wants to make a claim, he can try via court

Courts only deal in facts, so is there an original contract ???

Good luck

Courts deal with the law. Contracts do not have to be written down to exist although that is a good idea because it means everyone knows where they stand.

She needs to get a much better solicitor who will tell your uncle to take a running jump

If she sold the caravan did she pay back the original amount? Can she demonstrate this with paperwork or bank statement? I doubt a court would accept that 30k on top is acceptable for interest over a few years.

park homes always sell for a LOT less second hand than they cost new
often around 1/3