How will we survive on low salary? Please help what to do? London!

[bumbleandbumble]

My husband earns 30K. At the moment I am not working and we are living with family paying a very low rent...we barely scrape by. Now we are being evicted and looking for a place to rent. I have the possibility of a job also for 30K...still in round 3 of interviews...

But even if I get the job, how will we survive? All my earnings will go to childcare (2 kids under 5) and his will cover rent...but no money for food/bills!!! How do you survive in London with these incomes?

A £30k wage here would make for a comfortable household.

I would say move somewhere where rent is more affordable.

Some of you have no idea of costs in London. No we cant move farther out because higher commuting costs and taking even longer to get home after work will also mean more childcare. We already cant get home before 7pm.

Nannies in London are very expensive... We do qualify for 15 hours free, but that still doesnt help enough. The cost of childcare and rent is simply too much.

We cannot get a mortgage, that is out of the question. My husband has severely bad credit and a lot of debt. At the moment I am unemployed/freelance and cant get a mortgage.

We have no family here to help at all....so every hour is paying out for childcare.

But you can only get 30K wage in London!!! Where do suggest I go?

Well, I'm not suggesting you move up here (you may hate it), but we live in the Midlands and earning £30k+ is still fairly normal for many people and rents are much lower than the SE/London.

What jobs do you both do? You may find you have a more comfortable standard of living elsewhere in the UK, each earning under £20k.

Obviously, relocating isn't the solution for everyone - but I honestly don't know how people pay London rents on anything other than a very good salary.

Childcare availability and costs can be easier in commuterville, was surprised at the difference. Rail transport costs vary hugely, some lines are slow (so higher childcare costs and dull commute) but cheap! Avoiding the tube if you can also saves money.

There isn't anywhere in the UK you can't earn £30K, it all depends on how hard you are willing to work. Now, I can understand you saying, but he can't earn £30K a year outside of London as a tube driver, but then he can't earn £30K a year in London as a trawlerman.

It looks like you chose your career and your home, and now you can't afford them are unwilling to move to a place where life is cheaper. That's your choice. People are just pointing out that there are a million ways to earn £30K a year and live a decent life, without living in London and drowning yourself in debt.

People change jobs and move house all the time.

I have to ask how much is going on debt each month? Is this the source of the problem?

My thoughts too, elephantspoo. I do always think what/how op have unmanagable debt. I've had debt before but not on a hand to mouth basis, and had a sticky month earlier this year but all done now. My oh wouldn't sleep at night.

Been there in the deepest way possible. Lost everything. People choose to live in debt. It is not imposed upon them.

I sleep better at night now than I ever did with space on my credit cards. Debt is a cancer.

You have to think outside the box - I don't know what jobs you do but if you genuinely can't move out of London, then if you can work freelance / self employed, can you work in the evenings or at the weekend so you reduce your childcare costs? Do you have a friend / contact who will nannyshare maybe? Any chance your partner can work his 5 day week over 4 days (so you can work on the 5th)?

There was a thread on here a while ago about how hard London life was and there were hundreds of posts with only a very small number of people saying they genuinely could not move out of London because of work. There may be a number of reasons why you don't WANT to move out of London, but I would seriously consider all options before setting out on a life with 2 small children where you think you won't be able to afford bills or food.

Okay OP - compare and contrast.

I'm in the central belt of Scotland, quite a nice little historic town that's considered the more...upmarket town in my area. It has direct transport links to both Glasgow and Edinburgh and there is lots to do round about to keep you entertained. It is very cheap living.

The beautiful cottage that I rent (lounge, kitchen/diner, bathroom, study/TV room, two double bedrooms, driveway for 2 cars, spacious patio garden and garage) would set you back between £450-500 per month. Gas and Electric is around £80 a month (we pay a little more each month just to make sure we stay in credit). Council tax/water and sewage is £100. After that, it's just your added extras such as broadband, mobile contract, etc. Top end total for a warm roof over your head with the rates thrown in: £700 per month.

Childcare here. For an all day placement at a nursery for an under 3 you're looking at around £30-35 a day. School based nurseries take from either 2 or 3 years for 5 mornings/afternoons a week and they are of course free places, for those who want their child to attend the nursery that will see them progress to the attached school. Childminder rates are around £3.50 an hour with discounts for your 2nd, 3rd, etc child.

Travel expenses. For a return train ticket to Glasgow during peak hours I think you're around £10 a day. Though buying a weekly/monthly/whatever pass ticket does save you quite a bit and would lessen the daily cost considerably. The bus is a good bit cheaper but obviously takes a bit longer and there is then the risk of getting caught in traffic.

Whilst your DH may not earn £30K doing what he does in London here, your cost of living would be dramatically lower. If he's in a professional role, you may actually be pleasantly surprised by the city rates he could get. There are always job opportunities in the cities. In the towns they are obviously less so, but I think that's true of anywhere.

I honestly think you need to consider a move out of London. London is a fantastic place to live if you're single and/or loaded. It's not so great when you've got two kids and earning £30K. The rents and childcare are extortionate. Days out are far too pricey. Commuting eats up whatever cash you have left and any hope of buying your own home is near on impossible because your rent eats up any chance of saving a deposit.

You sound like you're trapped in the 'London' way of thinking: I won't get paid as much if we move out.

You're right. London rates are better. But they come at such a severe cost, OP. Think about it. That premium London rate your DH is earning is going straight into everybody else's pockets but yours.

Please at least have a look at what else is out there. The north is lovely - I promise Where about's are yours/DH's family? Would you consider moving closer to them for some support?

I love Glasgow as to Edinburgh and they've fantastic trains and bars and restaurants, Id live there.??

I agree that moving out of London could help but I would caution that actually finding a job, any job, outside of London can be much harder. For example in the field I work in on the current main website for that job, 88% of current vacancies are in London. This means that looking for a job can involve a much longer search and compromise.

Also realigning your life and career choices completely as might be the case if you did decide to relocate takes time.

Having said that not everything outside London is cheaper. Although we have saved on housing costs and insurance, our council tax and water rates have tripled.

OP - I used to live in London years ago. Granted, with a larger salary than your DH (35k + bonus) and no kids, just a student fiance (now a working OH). I always said I would not move out of London. I never thought you could earn much outside of the Big City.

Well, I did because my OH got a job outside of London in Oxfordshire.

I still live in the SE, and can commute to London if needed (1 hour), but I have since changed jobs, and work for a global company which - surprise, surprise - had its main UK office outside of London. They even give you a discount on childcare.

After about 4 years, my OH and I now earn more than 100k together (I earn slightly more than him). We've bought a nice 3-bed townhouse (with large kitchen, family room, extra living room and 3.5 bathrooms) in a nice place with good transport links for the price of a two-bed flat in zone 2.

There is good life to be found outside of London.

And I wish I had known this earlier... it would have saved me from a lot of heartache.

P.S.: My job is a VERY London job. So I know I'm lucky. OH's job requires a PhD.

In your situation I'd forget the job I applied for, move out to the home counties or Essex or somewhere and let dh commute. Work freelance or evenings/weekends and pay for no childcare.

That's pretty much what we did. The alternative was to live somewhere not very nice in London and have trouble finding schools, running around like maniacs. We had a joint income of £60k when we made the decision.

Life is definitely easier (if a little more dull where I am). DH found a local job that paid similar within a few months. We can get up at 8am and dh is home by 6pm. We don't need a car because we can walk to work. Both of us can pick up/drop off from school. Both of us can attend the odd carol service. We've managed to get on the housing ladder and have a run down but nice area 2 bed house.

The only downside is that we miss the things to do in London and the huge pool of people you can choose your friends from.

My dc are older now and I'm working 9am to 3pm. We are rubbish with money but we have plenty to manage on. I think we'd have really struggled in London had we stayed.

I appreciate that we could find good schools for the dc without paying out too much on housing. Whilst decent jobs only come up here once in a while, there's little competition if you are in a particular field. DH's company find it incredibly hard to find people with the right skills.

Look at the long-term would be my advice. If you're always going to be earning that amount between you, you'd find it easier all round moving out. Do a search on Primelocation or similar and look at the rents in Bucks, Hants, Berks, Essex.

Lots of companies aren't in London and pay good salaries. Perhaps looking on linked in for vacancies, looking at companies which aren't based in the smoke.

I lived in London during my child free years and I can't imagine doing that now. Mainly because I'm not and never will be a merchant banker:)

Where I live ( in the sticks) there are hqs of global consultancies nearby, wealth management, affordable childcare and after school clubs. And nice new friends who used to work in the city and now don't.

You need to work out what's important to you. And get your dh onto a debt program. Can he stay with a friend in London during the week and pay off his debts faster whilst you rent somewhere else and it's cheaper? Or you do that, depending on your jobs.

Your dc shouldn't feel a burden and you've got to give yourself the chance to enjoy being parents. London might not be the place. You could work as admin for a country school and with the time free get some qualifications, I don't know. it depends on your career plan.

(On the housing agree with newname. My daughter's London one bed has gone up a lot in the last 2 years - interest only. It was worth the costs)

Those saying £60k is a lot, £30k a year is under £2k a month,. Childcare in London is at least £10k a child. We found a nanny was cheaper than paying for 3 children under 5 years old at one stage so we had a daily nanny. London is full of people looking for work so you can usually find someone good quite easily.

Mortgage rules changed in 2014 - it is currently much harder to get loans and childcare is taken into account on affordability. (Buy before you breed can be key these days since 2014). interest only deals are currently not really available for other than buy to lets.

£48k net your joint net pay - take off say £30k child care leaves £18k to house the family. You could live out in zone 5 where we live - cheaper here in all sorts of ways. Even so it will be tight. Get promoted again and again, get trained, seek those better jobs, work a weekend job too if you can - we did and it paid off. It's hard but doable.

greengrow you could, of course, not have 3 children

Hmm some not very nice comments on this thread, but to go back to your original question op, can you look at cheap areas a but further out with good transport to wherever your DH works? Croydon for example has great transport but is much cheaper, you can rent a 2 bed flat within walking distance of East Croydon station for 1,200pcm or a 2 or 3 bed terrace a but further out for a similar amount. A good option could be to get a flat in a large converted house with a nice shared garden, cheaper than a house but still gives you some outside space.

I would think about how you will manage pick up/drop off when your eldest is at school, if you have to pay for after school club it may still not be financially worthwhile for you to work, perhaps better to remain freelance?

I don't understand why the general advice blithely banded around to people struggling to keep up with the high cost of living in london is to pack up and move away to somewhere cheaper! Why should london be solely for the rich? Don't the rich need their homes cleaned, their restaurants staffed their hospitals and schools run? (I could go on with the infinite list of low paid jobs that continue to keep london running smoothly as it does).

Perhaps the simplistic view held by so many that if you can't keep up then shove off is just a reflection of what our government and councils have been promoting for so long.

Yes mamafridi, half of Belgravia and St James' should be sold at peppercorn rates, but only to cleaners and restaurant staff...

Free market. Simples.

People in low paid jobs don't tend to live in zone 1 or 2, or even 3. They still pay travel costs etc. Restaurant and such workers do 16 hour days and might struggle with childcare - which is why they push off to country gastro pubs and try to have a better life. Or send money home to pay for their families.

London is great if you can make the transition with kids - but if you have to live further out and it's not very nice, then looking further enhances your life surely? More space, a smaller community, smaller schools.. Schools not struggling with children not speaking english ( and I mean the majority of reception pupils) it's all very well to say it's good for the mix, but when it's you, it's a big decision.

Was going to reply to this thread with some advice - then I read the OP and saw that low income = 60K. Only on Mumsnet